my point of view concerning seeds

[didine17]

the seeds could be better choose i think : we could use the elo points rank
i have soon purpose this months ago and the answer was guys play against guys with small elo points to level up their rank
i m agree with this but don t u think we see immediately the real good players and the factice good players
when i see john amler who has a master level at elo points and he s not seeded at dubai tournament : there is a "problem"
more , most of players who play futures or challengers tournaments who play against didine17 seed at them , told themselves : Good!i will eat him !
i smile but am i really so long of the reality?..
i think a discussion should be engage to choose the best system of seeds : i have not the solution but it s mine
please answers..
thks

[latouur]

Le truc c'est que des gens jouent hors tournoi, puis apprennent l'existence du tour et s'y mettent ensuite
Ca a été le cas avec par exemple FrancescoDimitrov qui était un monstre et quand il a débuté le tour, il écrasait tout le monde...
Maintenant, ce serait injuste pour ceux qui jouent des tournois d'être classés en dessous d'autres qui ne jouent pas le tour mais font monter leur ELO

[djarvik]

Le truc c'est que des gens jouent hors tournoi, puis apprennent l'existence du tour et s'y mettent ensuite
Ca a été le cas avec par exemple FrancescoDimitrov qui était un monstre et quand il a débuté le tour, il écrasait tout le monde...
Maintenant, ce serait injuste pour ceux qui jouent des tournois d'être classés en dessous d'autres qui ne jouent pas le tour mais font monter leur ELO

Please write a translation in English asap.

[latouur]

Sorry
I said some players begin to play outside the tour, wins a lot of elo and after this they begin the tour like FrancescoDimitrov who was really good
But it would not be fair to rank with the elo because the players who play the tour for a long time, have a ranking with their points won in tournaments would be penalised

[FEDERER2]

The biggest problem with ELO is that you have your talented guys at around 2200-2500, but also in that region, you have guys who either used to play or they play 24/7 to get to that level, it's not a 100% good indicator of level of play. I guess you could take games played into account, but it still wouldn't be completely reflective of play level.

[didine17]

i m agree elo points like reference system is not perfect but i think it s the most near reality of guys level
for example : i have 430 elo points , john amler has , i remember , more 2000 ; my friend , spaniish , has 1300-1400 elo points...
and i continue to be seed in challenger or future tournaments with my 430 elo points..

[inseedious]

This happens in real tennis too. Federer, for example, won AO 2017 with the 17th seed, having to face Berdych and Nishikori in relatively early rounds – R32 and R16, respectively. His seed obviously didn't represent his true level, but it's ok, there are many players who are slowly coming back after retirement or injury – e.g. Del Potro – and then their rank is way worse than what should be.

Other than that, your reasoning doesn't make so much sense. I mean, if you are given a "worse" seed because of your ELO, you're more likely to encounter a top seed in early rounds. So I think it would even be slightly worse for you.

Don't take it as a critic, but if you keep playing and accumulating points from many tourneys, but are not able to gain ELO over the time, there should be a problem. Maybe there's an input lag that makes you unable to play at your deserved level? Maybe you use uncomfortable keybinds? I don't know. Try to play on another PC to make a test, or just try to do some changes to see if something improves. I know you from a long time, and being stuck at 400 ELO for years is definitely not normal.

[didine17]

i would like answer to ur point of view :
1 : dont compare too much real tennis and tennis elbow ; true federer was seed 17 and he has won AO17 but in tennis elbow who can win AO or RG ...who is seed 17 ? : nobody ; everybody knows pidzi , vramvrim , u or Vmoe can win slam titles ; only u
2 : my last tournament i played , i was seed 3 at future canada tournament and i have played against hrstic97, at first round , who had 1600 elo points so if i m not seed , where is the difference ?
more , in this tournament , hrstic97 , TheRetroPrime , AltronoX and Klizano participe at this tournament and no one of us are seed : something s wrong
3 : concerning me , i have not a good level since long time : it s true.but i had personnal problems .if i m in a good form , i have won a set on doubles tournaments "against"Blackfenix who is a reference in this game
so i dont desesperate to continue to progress

[Pablo Hernandez]

I see your point didine as there is andymuzza who is easily top 10 player unseeded and had him in the first round and played him 3 times in 5 days and lost soundly each but I would rather face tougher opposition as it improved you as a player but I understand what you mean as John is not seeded but plays at such a high level along with klizano who was always good coming though the tour in the challengers. For a period of time after last year there was thiagolima93 Gobi84 filas mignogna playing in futures now two of them are top 10 and the others play at a consistent level of play and after they stopped playing on futures apart from mohd there wasn't anyone who with all respect was going to make deep runs in tournaments 250 or above but now there is players coming through again which will benefit the game as a whole . Elo doesn't mean everything at times. And let's not forget Karse doesn't play much but if he played he could have been a gs champion and top 5 that's how good he is. So ranking means nothing as well

[didine17]

ok
it s true

[didine17]

so totally agree with u said pablo but , sometimes , beginners at itst , play against me , defeat me and ask me : "which is ur rank?"
this rank system is over too
can we sometimes , use the race to give seed at itst tournaments?

[John Amler]

Hello everyone,

I´d like to add something to this topic.
As didine mentioned me, I have around 2400 elo. I play this game for approx. 3 years, but I never was very active on the tour. I usually played my friends, or just hosted/joined some game for fun, I played a few tournaments, but because of school and work, I couldnt play regularly.
This is the first year when I´m trying to play regularly and get as far as possible.

Straight to the seeding ,,issue"
If players would be seeded by ELO, there would be no meaning of getting points in the tour. There would be no meaning of ranking etc. The tour practically couldnt work like that.

And also, from my point of view, If I should be immediately seeded in my first tournament I play because I have high ELO, I´d consider that kind of unfair to me. I want to climb as high as possible just by myself. I want to enjoy the ,,journey".

Have a nice day, John

[didine17]

ok , the elo points system is not perfect but , guys , what do u purpose?
i repeat the same things : i m seed at future or challengers also most guys of these tournaments play better than me , it s not realist
there are a few solutions :
1/use the race like seed reference
2/the best system at my point of view is use the ratio : points wons / number of tournaments played by this player ( with a minimum of tournaments played to valid the rank ) . but i know it s impossible to do cause need too much work
3/ sign up at a qualifications tournament to enter in the principal draw but , the same problem , need too much work

[Pablo Hernandez]

I see your point but it would complicate seedlings and so on , I personally wouldn't allow masters on futures as a whole and hopefully it would solve some troubles that there is and avoid mismatch but sooner or later for everyone when facing vmoe vravrim pidzi inseedious and others as their hand to eye coordination shot making movement and other aspect out manoeuvres other players on tour. In other words it would delay that inevitable of facing high quality players .

[inseedious]

ELO is too easy to manipulate unfortunately. Otherwise, I would be ok with, for example, restricting challengers and futures to players who are lower than, respectively, 2000 and 1500 ELO. I also hardly doubt this would be technically doable.

Other than that, there may be a reporting system through which some players can warn the host of their tournament that a certain player is too good for it, so the host can make further investigations and, if it's the case, ban the player from challengers and/or futures. But I think the current system is still working quite well. Those "solutions" may cause more damage than help.