Te Top ranked players - Questions

[VMoe86]

i think the roaster is pretty well balanced right now

The roaster? Sorry, I cannot resist: Roaster

On the rest I will answer later, lack of time until this evening for a proper reply.

[C4iLL]

Yeah the efficient shot down the line was exactly the ability that was killed for most of the characters with the previous updates. That's why the short accels became the only possibility in most cases.

Anyway the roster is extremely well balanced as Florian said, I agree with that. But the global level of the characters should be more efficient, that's my point. Now I really trust Elias & the team for finding the good solution.

About the past level however I don't really agree with Elias. I think we still used short accels, powerful shots on line etc.
If the past players don't have as much success as before, it's because of other reasons. They practiced more, were used to some animations and some stats, prefered how fast the game was.

In my opinion, TE 2013 + ITST 1.13 require total different qualities than TE2011 1.E with the ITST version of this period.

[El Croato]

Interesting stuff here as always.

I think we will reach a breakthrough when a spin option is available for both the forehand and the backhand, it would also be nice to add a kind of flat option, which would only trigger when hitting short accelerations and fully loaded normal accelerations, which would enable each of us to finish "easy" points more quickly, whichever the character one plays with.

However, as this will require some substantial in-game modifying, the only solution aimed at making the game winner-friendlier I can see right now is to decrease "sensibly" the spin percentage of a number of players with high spin percentage such as Nadal, Almagro and co who are therefore struggling to hit winners when facing moonballs.

[Florian]

In addition to these issues caused by stats mentioned by C4ill, we must also care about deep counters. For example, yesterday I played Floriann who was using Murray, and I can surely say that 95% of his defensive shots landed at least 20-30 cm from the baseline. Nothing against Floriann, who's a great defender and agrees with my opinion about deep counters and mishits, but I think we played quite at the same level yesterday, even if losing 6-1 6-4 because of lots of errors from the baseline and too long rallies.

Inseedious, we all get the same amount of deep counters in a rather long period of playing, but it seems there that you're missing the point. What i call a deep counter is the shot reaching directly the baseline, impossible to measure compared the the long defense because with the deep counter on the baseline, if you step back, by the time you realise the shot is really long, you can't produce a decent enough shot as a response. This is different from long defenses with added spin (happens regularly with guys such as Murray, and i guess this fits to reality), if you realise the defense of your opponent is good but not a deep counter, you still have time to counter it yourself : the result will either be a possibly weird short shot (hard to discern for the opponent once more), or a good counter if you press the buttons long enough.

So don't mix those two situations : defender's defense pushes you a bit far back because of the spin, not because it's a deep counter, maybe flatter hitters such as Haas, when they defend good, produce less annoying shots but that's because of the spin and not because of some random luck.

On the other hand i would absolutely love if there was a way to discern either deep counters quicker, and more especially when the incoming ball is a weird short shot : those are the one which should be easier to punish, and right now they are catching you into a spot where you can't hit a winner off those because you're realising they are short too late, and after that you can't follow nicely at the net so you get passed more easily.

This is very annoying and also kills the attack even if those situations don't happen on every point, i don't know if there is something to do about that, maybe letting a bit of autopos for those shots around the service line (as it is already efficient when reaching the net, autopos would then only be effective 2 meters behind that "net line") ?

What are your thoughts about that ?

[inseedious]

Inseedious, we all get the same amount of deep counters in a rather long period of playing, but it seems there that you're missing the point. What i call a deep counter is the shot reaching directly the baseline, impossible to measure compared the the long defense because with the deep counter on the baseline, if you step back, by the time you realise the shot is really long, you can't produce a decent enough shot as a response. This is different from long defenses with added spin (happens regularly with guys such as Murray, and i guess this fits to reality), if you realise the defense of your opponent is good but not a deep counter, you still have time to counter it yourself : the result will either be a possibly weird short shot (hard to discern for the opponent once more), or a good counter if you press the buttons long enough.

So don't mix those two situations : defender's defense pushes you a bit far back because of the spin, not because it's a deep counter, maybe flatter hitters such as Haas, when they defend good, produce less annoying shots but that's because of the spin and not because of some random luck.

On the other hand i would absolutely love if there was a way to discern either deep counters quicker, and more especially when the incoming ball is a weird short shot : those are the one which should be easier to punish, and right now they are catching you into a spot where you can't hit a winner off those because you're realising they are short too late, and after that you can't follow nicely at the net so you get passed more easily.

This is very annoying and also kills the attack even if those situations don't happen on every point, i don't know if there is something to do about that, maybe letting a bit of autopos for those shots around the service line (as it is already efficient when reaching the net, autopos would then only be effective 2 meters behind that "net line") ?

What are your thoughts about that ?

About deep counters, I call deep counters all deep shots that are deeper than charged shots just because they are not charged, so they have a bigger landing area. They can be on the baseline or at 20-30cm, to me they are deep counters to me. Obviously, not all of them are what we used to call "mishits", but I think they are "unfairly" too often deep to me, they just kill offensive game. Maybe I hit some of them too, but I was obviously penalized more by them, as I had to finish points quickly to avoid long rallies. As reguards issues about shots recognizing, I think there are 2 main problems:
1) on a 2d screen, especially in 2d mode, not all trajectories are clear;
2) yeah, in real tennis there is a sort of "natural and automatic adjustment" when you hit a shot, that we absolutely don't have since we use slow autopos. Of course, average autopos would cause a sort of arcade feel, while we like simulation a lot more. A possible solution would be a smarter autopos, helping the management of volleys and deep/short shots, but still punishing bad positioned players. Maybe the right autopos system should move the player to North/South, but not widely (East/West). This will generate even more technical skill requirements, but will help attack and other stuffs. In addition, it can make defence a bit realistic, as currently 90-95% of hard defensive shots are succesful, while in real tennis lots of defensive shots, especially on return, are too long or too wide.

[Florian]

I would agree on the part where when a short shot arrives, the only fact of pressing the fire button helps a bit positionning better. But still you would have to be really well positionned if you want to nail the short shot right away.

[C4iLL]

A deep counter, in real life, would be something like an unexpected hard shot that arrives by surprise in your feet.
In real life it happens, rare players can counter this without doing faults, maybe only Federer knows how to counter this when he's on ping-pong mode. Personally I like these shots, it allows the guy that struggle to come back in the exchange if he finds the great timing. Whatever you're on the court, you still have a little chance to win the points thanks to that, and I really appriciate it.

Anyway I also agree with Croato about the spin, why not trying that too ?

[djarvik]

A deep counter, in real life, would be something like an unexpected hard shot that arrives by surprise in your feet.

Show me.

[Florian]

C4ill, which shots are supposed to happen more often when you're scrambling : deep counters or long ues ? Definitely more often long ues, because hitting a deep counter right on the baseline involves only luck, so if you're pretty much out of your comfort zone you have to have more chances to hit a long ue rather than a perfect shot on the baseline (and those shots aren't even slow so it's just horrible to detect them on a screen...)

I agree with the fact that it is cool to know you have a chance for a reasonably deep counter and get back in the point, but then I can't understand why you don't accept the fact that it is also good to know that when deep counters arrive in your feet then you know that you always have a chance to handle them, and right now even defenders will hit 95% ue orange or red.

[Florian]

A deep counter, in real life, would be something like an unexpected hard shot that arrives by surprise in your feet.

Show me.

Yeah lol, if you can't see the length of the shot arriving into your feet in real life I guess you re playing with glasses or you re not watching at the ball carefully

[C4iLL]

I'm talking about the sudden shots some players make that start like rockets and arrive in the feet of the opponent who is then taken by surprise and the guy make an UE because it was too fast (pris de vitesse in french).

Don't also forget about false rebound that can also disturb players on clay, I see that frequently. And also for Federer and other 1 hand BH, when they miss the ball and it goes in the public... There are a lot of "realist" equivalent to these UE

[C4iLL]

C4ill, which shots are supposed to happen more often when you're scrambling : deep counters or long ues ? Definitely more often long ues,

I agree by the way ! But there are a lot of UE in such conditions today (without the auto pos). And it will be even more the case with less speed.

[djarvik]

I'm talking about the sudden shots some players make that start like rockets and arrive in the feet of the opponent who is then taken by surprise and the guy make an UE because it was too fast (pris de vitesse in french).

I insist, show me

[Florian]

I'm talking about the sudden shots some players make that start like rockets and arrive in the feet of the opponent who is then taken by surprise and the guy make an UE because it was too fast (pris de vitesse in french).

Don't also forget about false rebound that can also disturb players on clay, I see that frequently. And also for Federer and other 1 hand BH, when they miss the ball and it goes in the public... There are a lot of "realist" equivalent to these UE

You're talking about rockets, I'm taking about defensive shots, those who look the same than normal length ones but you re taken by surprise at the last moment because there is less than half a second to detect they are longer than usual.

[djarvik]

I think C4ill refers to return of second serves (sometimes first), where the returner moves in and attacks the ball, causing the server fault, because he has just completed his serve motion and did not recover yet. This is THE only instance I can see it happening, and even then, the reasoning is not because the shot is "deep", most times they are not deep, just regular shots, but because of time....time being taken away by returner off the server. It simply catches the server right after he completes the serve motion and is simply not ready for the shot.