Is cheesing a new fashion ?

[Clog]

Hi everyone,

Before I start, I'd like to say that I know I'm not the most ancient player of this tour, not the most active, not one of the founders. I'm just a player like all the others, but since I really care about the community, I decided to write this little thread just to remember a new things to newcomers AND players who're here for a few weeks/months...
Even if I'm kinda into an off period, preparing the clay season, I casually practice online. What a surprise when I played against an anonymous player ([Fake] Verdasco around 2k3 ELO) who made fist pumps after every point he won (even UE), and threw his racket after every point he lost. Then, when I started to have the upper hand, he started to hit lobs from the baseline ; one lob, two lobs, three lobs, and b1+b2 to surprise. Cheesy.

So I just thought like you're probably thinking right now ; that happens. Unfortunately, only this week-end, I've met a few other players who decided to be cheesy. I've met other "lobbers", "servers from the corners", "chat spammers"... I even met someone who started to complain on the chat when I led 2-0, accusing me to "push my opponent to the fault". Believe it or not, but it wasn't my tactics since I decided to change a lot of things in my games. But I mean, even if it was, does it worth complaining in practice ? Is defending when your opponent has the upper hand forbidden ?

Anyway, the point is that being cheesy in practice isn't a serious issue since it has no impact on the competition, even if that's really annoying. But since I saw that on newcomers, maybe we should tell more often that some strategies are forbidden in tournaments...

Sincerely yours, buddies.

EDIT : I won against all of them. I don't say it to be pretentious, really, but just to let you know that it's not only an angry loser message.

[VMoe86]

The only thing important to ITST are the tour matches. If someone behaves wrongly there (on or off the court) and is reported multiple times for such bad behaviour, then the management will do something (suspension for a certain time or in worst case a permanent ban so that the player is not allowed to play ITST Matches).

Complaints about non-tour matches are not taken into account. Feel free to inform these players about the rules, but some of them don't even play on tour and probably don't want to because they took a glance at the rules. Besides, there is the reputation system which indicates how someone behaves on court (neutral or worse reputation are a good indicator of bad behaviour) so that one can avoid those players in non-tour matches.

[Clog]

Yeah Moe, I know that. The point is that I don't want these players to do the same in official matches ; even if I know the management will punish. You know what I mean : Prevention is better than cure.

[C4iLL]

In my opinion, a cheesy guy in exhibition, will most of the time be cheesy in official from what I saw. One day I met a player using a wrong CRC, I asked Vmoe and he already did it in official for instance.

Now except Jeopadro or something like that, I never met a cheesy guy recently. I always took insults etc with fun (on xbox live I was insulted and threatened 1 time out of 4 exhibitions lol) it makes me laugh
It's just some letters in a screen, it's completely ridiculous ^^

About the lobs from baseline, I'm not sure it's cheesy in defense anyway. Globally, if you see a guy that is cheesy in exhibitions, just be cheesy as him

[Clog]

Not sure either about the defense lobs ; I think it's on the table right now. But hitting lobs from the baseline in the middle of a rally is cheesy.

[inseedious]

As I tried to say in other threads, we need a better and more evident rule statement. There still are players who use drops when the opp is at net (thinking it is fair), even in official matches, for example. Some people didn't even know that baseline lobs are just forbidden here, so I had to tell them to check the rules topic to understand that i was not whining.

[Elias]

As I tried to say in other threads, we need a better and more evident rule statement. There still are players who use drops when the opp is at net (thinking it is fair), even in official matches, for example. Some people didn't even know that baseline lobs are just forbidden here, so I had to tell them to check the rules topic to understand that i was not whining.

Well if they can't understand taht they may have to read a rule thread when being involved to some online competiton, they're not the cleverest people out there and are exposing themselves to some issues. They may learn the harsh way if you report them, plain and simple. what do you suggest ? maybe some mass e-mailing with rules reminders one or two times a year ? can't say. Seems obvious to me to check the rules when getting involved to some competition. i wouldn't bring everyone by hand to explain such obvious basic evidence.

[inseedious]

Well if they can't understand taht they may have to read a rule thread when being involved to some online competiton, they're not the cleverest people out there and are exposing themselves to some issues. They may learn the hard way if you report them, plain and simple. what do you suggest ? maybe some mass e-mailing with rules reminders one or two times a year ? can't say. Seems obvious to me to check the rules when getting involved to some competition. i wouldn't bring everyone by hand to explain such obvious basic evidence.

Maybe putting the rules thread into announcements should be a great idea, for example. And you can write in the "ITST Mod 1.13 - What do you need to get started!" thread a step including "carefully read the rulement, as any violation of the code can be punished by ban". These are just ideas, hope they can help.

[VMoe86]

Honestly: You can repeat the rules over and over again, highlight them in various ways. There are simply people who do not care about it. It's like those students whom you can tell a million times not to play online poker during lectures or exercise classes because they will not pass the exam that way. In the end they fail and if they fail often enough they are not allowed to continue play...studying.

[Clog]

It's like those students whom you can tell a million times not to play online poker during lectures or exercise classes because they will not pass the exam that way. In the end they fail and if they fail often enough they are not allowed to continue play...studying.

Did you really see that ?
Anyway, seems like you finally understand what I meant. Cheesing in exhibition is no big deal, but as C4iLL explained better than me, I'm afraid those new players behave in tournament as they do in exhibition ; once again, even if there are some punishments, it's not good for the community. And yeah, the "dropshot to the volley" thing is unknown for a lot of people. I remember when Sedas just arrived on tour, he was hitting lobs from the baseline in exhibition (which probably explained his "Bad" reputation on the game at that time), and when I saw he was my first opponent in the Australian Open, I told him in my PM that it was forbidden ; indeed he didn't read the rules since he was surprised.
Don't get me wrong, I have no heart feeling for Sedas, and his recent results shows that he has become a great player, not to mention that he didn't react badly when I told him he can't do it. This is just to give an example.

[BrushedBigJJ]

About the lobs from baseline, I'm not sure it's cheesy in defense anyway. Globally, if you see a guy that is cheesy in exhibitions, just be cheesy as him

First we agree on wawrinka, now we disagree on baseline to baseline lobs. Me being on the side that they should be forbidden and you saying its ok or not being sure.

In real tennis defensive baseline to baseline shots are done out of desperation and rarely work because the other guy spikes the ball. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but there hasn't been a tennis game where there is a button to choose to spike the ball. That's why it's cheesy to allow it, it's too effective.

And one thing clog was talking about was people baseline lobbing to change up the pace of the rally(totally unrealistic). And lobbing one shot before they get off balance to give themselves plenty of time to stay in the rally which is also unrealistic.

[inseedious]

Baseline lobs are forbidden not because they're unrealistic themselfes (some reaching shots turn into baseline lobs in real tennis), but because they are not attackable as they should be, giving an unfair advantage to the lobber who can easily escape from difficult situation and turn the point on his side, both because of the game mechanics and the difficult anticipation of bouncing zone and height.

[BrushedBigJJ]

Baseline lobs are forbidden not because they're unrealistic themselfes (some reaching shots turn into baseline lobs in real tennis), but because they are not attackable as they should be, giving an unfair advantage to the lobber who can easily escape from difficult situation and turn the point on his side, both because of the game mechanics and the difficult anticipation of bouncing zone and height.

Thank you for adding more clarification to what I said

And yes a baseline lob isn't unrealistic, its the inability to react to it properly. When a game is made where you can spike the ball to the open court 90% of the time for a winner, no rule would be needed.

[Woowhat]

Play only with guys with good reputation. Although some guys like to rep you bad only cos they lose so it has flaws. Btw mine is almost at 100% cos everyone loves me for being so awesome and modest.

But yes lobs are lame. There is actually a special combination for ''good'' lobs. Slice+lob+slice. i would use that but it's to complicated, when you are on run and barely in reach off ball you don't have time to press all these buttons. They should make it easier to perform.
Btw I only use lobs when I see my opponent coming to net, meaning almost never cos everyone is aware how good my passing shots are.