The death of topsin n the rise of TE...

[VMoe86]

A game is to entertain. This is not cinema.

You can accept "Indie Movies" with deep stories and lousy visual effects but cannot do the same with a game?

Fifa is better than Pro and EA gain more money. That's the gaming industry. You game is better, u win more money.

I don't care about soccer games, but better games are not necessarily the ones selling better. And better is always with respect to the standard one expects from a certain game. In sports games I don't need great visuals, I just need great gameplay offering me plenty of freedom so that even after quite some time I can discover new things. Before you ask: Yes, I keep old consoles and games. I still play Super Mario Kart on the SNES, for instance.

U said u lauch because u read "Top Spin is way better than TE", u lauch because someone thinks some game is better than other? I though this communty is more mature than WOW-GOW, PRO-PES, BAT-COD and many others.

I laugh mainly because you said "way better", not just "better". "Way better" means a lot better and you did not provide any concrete arguments, which justify using these words -- and as a professional video game reviewer you should have experience in giving good arguments. This community is more mature to look beyond sales and casualised games. This community mainly cares about rich gameplay, but apparently you are not mature enough to accept that fact.

TE is a beautiful game for tennis fans, im sure, i didn't say the opposite. Also it's beautiful to see this great TE community. But i don't like the game. That's all. And i think TS4 is better than TE.

Provide arguments, not just "I don't like".

TE and Top Spin are different games. No need to compare.

The one who started the comparison says they cannot be compared -- priceless. And by the way, they can be compared and the result of the comparison is that they aim at different type of players.

[JohnCurveo]

Im just trying to discuss. I don't know if it looks that i don't respect any opinion. Sorry if it looks like that. I make a lot of errors when i try to say something, like when i said "crazy". Also i made a mistake saying what one of my jobs is.

You can accept "Indie Movies" with deep stories and lousy visual effects but cannot do the same with a game?

I didn't say i don't accept TE. Have u read what i said about TE? always good things.

I laugh mainly because you said "way better", not just "better". "Way better" means a lot better and you did not provide any concrete arguments, which justify using these words -- and as a professional video game reviewer you should have experience in giving good arguments. This community is more mature to look beyond sales and casualised games. This community mainly cares about rich gameplay, but apparently you are not mature enough to accept that fact.

I was trying to provoque. That's why i said "way better" Ok i didn't understand enough that "laugh" thing. I have experience in giving good arguments in spanish. In english i have not enough vocabulary. That's why after a while i said to myself "why ure discussing here?" But im always like that.

The one who started the comparison says they cannot be compared -- priceless.

Have u read my first post? In every post ive said they are from different leagues.

Provide arguments, not just "I don't like".

My argument is: they are from different leagues, they cannot be compared. U say they can be compared, ok. When i said "amateur" game. I said enough. The problems of an amateur game are always the same. Very poor graphics and animations.

I was trying to respond to C4ill, not all TE community.

[VMoe86]

I have read your posts and yes, you have said TE has great gameplay. I'm totally aware of that and also can imagine the reasons, why you could still consider TS4 to be better. You simply did not mention these reasons explicitely. No need to argue further on that, at least for me. It's always the same with discussions on the internet.

By the way, by saying that TS4 is better than TE, you made a comparison. My point regarding comparisons in general is: You can compare everything, but the result of the comparison is that these things can be very different. And as it is, TE and TS4 are quite different.

[JohnCurveo]

Djarvik,

I didn't flaunt anything. I edited the post but elio copy paste it. I knew it was a mistake just after.

About the other things, i think the game industry works different. As an example, Skyrim, awarded as the best game of last year. He has received harsh criticism from users, despite having a near-perfect packaging, is an unfinished game, and practically every users community people says the game is "scum". Meanwhile, critics, among whom I include myself, we let ourselves be blinded by the early hours of the game. I think in the video game industry, professionalized, the slightest mistake can lead you to failure. All games are aimed at a different type of target. But that target is pretty demanding.
I know we make mistakes judging. But also it's not that easy. I think there is a lot of garbadge on industry, but also there are the best games ever made.
Perhaps it's true, i'm looking into this like an "spectator". I don't know.

By the way, by saying that TS4 is better than TE, you made a comparison.

Yeh, i know

[jayb1988]

Strangely enough I've been thinking for a while now that all the focus seems primarily on Tennis Elbow, I've had messages with people trying to convert me to the game but looking on YouTube videos I'm yet to be convinced it's anything more than a bedroom created indie game and that's not really my thing, I adore indie music but when it comes to video games, I prefer the corporately manufactured products with all the manpower, time and cash that they're able to throw at a game such as Top Spin.

I don't mind if more people wish to play Tennis Elbow before the next Top Spin, what worries me is that people seem to be shunning and condemning Top Spin 4 all too readily, with the series this site is meant to be based around giving them so much this seems somewhat unfair. Top Spin 4 to me at least is the one game I've played regularly since its release date, with only Fifa and Football Manager rivalling for overall playing time. It's a brilliant game in my eyes, whoever says it's for casual gamers is talking nonsense, I've improved so much since first joining this site and never have I felt that I couldn't learn more about the game.

If people say you get drawn in to 'boring' cross-court rallies then adapt your gamestyle, the platform is there to mix things up with serve & volley, shots down the line, drop shots, variations of deep slice and top spin, there's not much in real tennis that can't be replicated. If you see a match of top players playing to their limits there is no better emotionally gripping game, there are mistakes when you are actually pressured by an opponent who knows how to play the game and you can get some great rallies going that rival watching a Murray/Djoko final for entertainment. Whoever said that double faults and aces are rare can't have played the game much, in any epic three setter there will be the odd double fault as in a real match and I get many aces per match. The risk factor is there because a wrong shot choice can totally compromise the point.

I don't understand the lack of sign-ups notion either for Top Spin 4? At least on the 360 there seems to be more competition on the women's side than ever, while the men's tournaments always seem pretty full to me, I think people are dismissing the game too easily. The problems with the glitch seem to have gone away with the people moaning about its existence and have left the tour, I havent encountered many problems with it for a long time.

[Tamthewasp]

I think John is getting a real hard time, although I dont agree with everything he has said, right now with the ts patches have come along, would it not be better going back to the released version? IDK, I never played the released version I bought it after a few patches...

I agree with a lot of what Al says.

[C4iLL]

@Jayb : 51 sign-in for Paris Master 1000 in Tennis Elbow, 24 for Xbox with only Hugo Chavez and maybe DSL who could have compete with the real top10 of this tour.

Indeed : no Shocase, no fifa tee, no bkristian, no joker, no Iluvbillval, no khult, no berson, no zguen, no supermassy, no avinash pattel, no robbin, no indiantonike, no berson, no LokiSharpshooter and so on.

It's completely dead, but I don't deny the fact that it can be funny to play as everybody has approximately the same level on the tour now

[jayb1988]

Yeah I wondered what had happened to Fifa Tee and Shocase, I guess alot of players just sign up for the really big tourns at the end of the season though because unless you need points to get into the end of year finals like me there's not much point in playing them?

Most of the players you've mentioned there have either been banned or left a long time ago and have been replaced by players like Airton, Swifty and Sorauze, there's still some very good players hanging around.

I gave in last night and got the demo of TE, the ball physics are very realistic but I can only seem to hit down the middle most of the time, seems like it takes a while to get used to it? Has everyone paid for the full version and can you use an xbox controller as the PC controls are quite awkward for a sports game?

[djarvik]

I gave in last night and got the demo of TE, the ball physics are very realistic but I can only seem to hit down the middle most of the time, seems like it takes a while to get used to it? Has everyone paid for the full version and can you use an xbox controller as the PC controls are quite awkward for a sports game?

I am using wired xbox controller.

There are big differences in how the shots produced in TE as opposed to other games. Here you need to keep holding the button rather then releasing it and you need to make sure you hit with the STRINGS, not body of a player. So:

- get into hitting position that you think will allow you to make contact with strings
- press and hold desired shot
- press and hold direction


thats all, the shot will be produced.

After the shot is produced - release everything and move to the next position, be it a hitting one or recover one.


Also, DEMO does no justice to the game. You need to have full version with ITST patch, that is the "handle". TE is not a new game, it was brought up to ITST a few times before, but never caught on. Reason? We didn't have our won patch. Now that we do - it makes the game significantly better. Consider this.

[Norberto H]

I think comparing Topspin games and TennisEllbow is like comparing McDonalds and a real smart, familiar restaurant. Now and then I enjoy McDonalds, but in the end I would always prefer the small restaurant.

However, I always loved the Topspin games, played every single one, I personally enjoyed TS1 most, to me TS1 > TS3 >>>TS2>TS4, I think TS4 was by far the weakest part, only my opinion (and that has nothing to do with the fact that I was more successful in TS3 than in TS4, for example I still like TS1 a lot more than TS3 eventhough I was not that successful), but even this game was somehow enjoyable for me, at least for some time. There was a short period when I played VirtuaTennis 3, but in the end it was Topspin all the way for me.

TennisEllbow is the first non-Topspin tennis game that really got me. Comparing only TS4 and TE, my opinion is that TS4 is more the mainstream game, nice graphics, nice to play for some time if you "like" tennis games, nice to pick up and to play some doubles with friends. TE IMO is more the game for tennis game freaks who "love" tennis games, who love deep gameplay. To me when it comes to tennis games it is all about gameplay, I give a shit about graphics. And the TE gameplay is really deep, at the moment I think that it is a game that allows you to improve not only over month, but over years.
Even if you play as a beginner against the top guys, yes you might lose 6-0, but it is a different 6-0 than in TS4, it still feels .........good..... (never thought that is is possible to feel satisfied after losing a match... )

It would not be fair now if I said I enjoyed TE more than for example TS1, which I really really loved, but I think I can say that TE feels as close to playing real tennis as it can get when it comes to online gaming.

[C4iLL]

Perfect summary of what I think Norberto

[Biscaia_]

I understand what John is trying to say, and I second him, although I haven't tried TE yet, and I think I never will. But actually seeing how much he got... well... attacked for saying that TE<TS4... And then criticized about it... when all I hear since two months is TE>TS4... Well...! I don't appreciate being labelled (directly or indirectly) as stupid just because I pick and stay on TS4. And definitely realism (in a game!) is not all that matters.

Also, about Sh0case and Fifa... and probably all the other names that were mentioned. They are great champions. They aren't less champions because they didn't choose to play TE or if they don't succeed in there.

I understand what Tam meant. It's not like the developers are making crap on TS4... but... Really if you see this thread overall you understand what Tam meant. ITST developers are everywhere on the TE side! (which does not mean that TS4 works has not been done properly). I don't think that TS or TE should be the "core" of ITST. They are two different and independent communities, that share love for tennis gaming.

[Lucian86]

TE and Top Spin are different games. No need to compare.

That's true but you keep saying that TS is better than TE...it's either one or the other

The reality is this:
TE is far more realistic than TS and with better gameplay experience (not going to explain why since has been done already by other people)
TS has better graphics and smoother animations (not more realistic though..I think that many of the anim that I personally created for the game are far more realistic than the ones from TS...less smooth but have more players signature in them)

TS is a commercial game and rightly so designed more for the "causal gamers". TE is for tennis lovers because it's focusing only on the "tennis game" himself....besides the gameplay, you can play the world tour where you have 1000 ATP players ranking, you have a lot of futures and challenger tournaments and ALL the ATP 250, 500, 1000 and GS tournaments. You also have the same ranking system as in the real life. In one word = realism !

Different games, different targets.
My personal feelings: TS is entertaining at first but in the long run it becomes boring. I play TE for more than 1 year already and still I enjoy it.

[Samael]

Does TE have custom created players now or still you can only use pro players?

[SlicerITST]

For the original game you can use your own created players. For ITST and the ITST Mod you have to use the pro players we created in the roster.