What is "Fairplay"

[C4iLL]

It's what I usually do off course. But :

1) even if I do that, a lot of balls often come near the baseline and the smash isn't executing wherever I am.

2) even if I catch some lobs with smashes or weak volleys by going back, that doesn't calm everybody.
Some guys will just keep playing like that and that creates completely ridiculous situations.
Like lobs played so innapropriately, that they could have won the point more easily if they have just hit a flat shot... Just because their fingers are stuck on "Y" ^^

Some others will off course stop lobs for 2-3 exchanges, but just after, the lob fiesta restarts... The average player indeed understands he can't pass me easily at the net with normal shots, so he just takes the easy option : lobs. Here I really point out the fact, that I never face that problem against good players like those in the top 10.

To show you how it's insane and abusive, I will try to record a full match soon. Unfortunately, I've a draw @Roland Garros that makes me think I can show you how much it can be abusive...

[djarvik]

Please do C4iLL, record the match and show.

I am really, honestly not trying to be an asshole here, a lot of time I am, but not now. I have not heard anyone but you complaint about the lobs. I personally made an SV player a month ago just to see what are you talking about, and I had no issues with lobs whatsoever. Sure I got lobbed here and there, but if anyone tried to spam me - he paid a heavy price. Even without SV player, I come to net a lot, around 10-15 times in a WT match. With SV I did 100% SV. I really want to see a video of what you mean and what am I missing.

You ask for a rule, but remember, we cannot make a rule just because you ask. I have not see anyone else ask for it and we have not experienced it ourselves. And believe me, we play the game, both me and Rob. Rob is very knowledgeable in SV as well. This all may just be a case of something you do that other SVs don't, that causes you to mistime most lobs.

Anyway, lets just see the vid man, its the best way forward.


@Tam and whomever think Lobs mid rally are cheating. (against basliners). Same thing as with above, every time someone does that lob - I put the ball away I am really not sure how this can be a problem at all. Yeah, an occasional time I would be out of position and take it as a FH instead of putting away, but that is like one out of ten times. That is once again a fault of Baseliner. Tam, if you pull your opponent off the court - step into the court and get ready to run and volley to finish that shot. This is what I do and I never have issue with defensive lobs, they end up being either smashes or volleys for me.


@Tam about "pushing the envelope, watching it bend"

Now you understand why we cannot put a number on drop shots, and cannot make certain things as rules. Rules in any sport should not be open to interpretation. The need to be blacks in white in order for players to clearly push them. That is the name of the game - push the rules. If we do put the number on Lobs and Drop shots - it will be like you say, a very scripted end of the match or set.

At the same time, you cannot blame someone for pushing the rules that are not there As in flat control, lobs, wide serves etc. Calling players that use these cheats and unfair is totally wrong and off base. The idea in the game is to TROUBLE your opponent, to hit the shots you have troubles returning. So why would anyone concentrate on anything else? Courtesy? eh?

Sure we do have the cheese statement and so on. But that is reserved for abuse. I am talking about drop shooting 10 times in a raw, 50 times a set etc.. extremes. I am talking about a guy going through a few rounds in the tournament doing that. This is cheese. Not the occasional match-up where you come in with a slow powerful player and your opponent hits 10 drop shots a set against you, in a close match that could be 13 games, less then one per game, that can go to deuce, thus 8-9 points, meaning a player dropshots once about every 10 points in a match-up where he is outgunned from the baseline. This is perfectly good strategy. That is why when players complaints, we ask for particulars like that and keep a track of players ho do this constantly, rather then a response to game situation or a match-up. That is why we always say - finish the match, as a re-matches is not a guarantee. We need to evaluate a few factors before we issue a match up.

[Tamthewasp]

Damn it all somstimes you make it extremely difficult 2 actually disagree with what you say. I always did understand that a number on a certain shot would never work. What I will say is tactical cheesing not as bad if not worse than just being a generally cheesy player. On the lob in rallies I know what you are saying and eventually I tried putting that in2 my game. It's only recently I tried playing at the net w/out an SnV player and was not any good at it but now I can hold my own at net. The problem is when your player is rooted 2 the spot and you can't move, the ball bounces and you can't hit a winner. Thats as much 2 do with not anticipating it I guess.

Again your right on pushing the limits and yeah maybe I just don't have that killer instinct. I.e I never hit drops EVER and sometimes I lose the point because of this. About all the shot types you mention and even c4ill sometimes I tend 2 think people forget it is a HELL of a lot worse on WT and 2k open. The fact that we even have a site like this where we can actually discuss the finer points of fair play is 2 me fantastic.

[Rob ITST]

IMO, a defensive lob against a baseliner is NOT cheesy. Just watch last year's RG final - Rafa used a ton of them against Fed. If you're pushed way off the court, it's sometimes the only option to stay in a rally. I don't use them, but I don't find them cheesy.

Someone also mentioned the drop shot/lob/drop shot combo... almost every exciting match in real life has at least one of those. I will use them occasionally, especially against a power player, to drain my opponent's stamina.

Without using any shots like these, I find the game boring - you just end up hitting the same shots over and over. The important part is to use them when it's appropriate, and not abuse them.

[JohnCurveo]

Well, im not agrre with that lob thing. Its a big mistake of TS4 the possibility of returning a 200-220 km/h serve with a lob when ure waiting just on the baseline. I mean, its not problem when somebody uses a lob far behind the baseline. Its completly normal. But on the line, i think its a completly stupid shot, just as defensive drop shots.

[Ali-Iqb93]

Lobs is not a problem not at least for me.. I have a 42 stat volley and I keep coming to the net and I can easily put away lobs.. Not always but if you anticipate well then it's not soo difficult.. Soo either c4ll you don't position yourself correctly while volleying or you don't know how to counter them.

[Tamthewasp]

There should be a much higher risk factor 2 hotting drops and lobs though. I know what you are saying about the final and yes it was great but again I say 1 match between 2 of the greatest players of all time. I'm not really going to be stressing 2 much about this game any more BUT when I make my glorious return in the future I expect all this 2 be dealt with . But hey by then evrything will be classed as cheesy and ypu will only be allowed 1 or 2 coaches

[JohnCurveo]

Lobs is not a problem not at least for me.. I have a 42 stat volley and I keep coming to the net and I can easily put away lobs.. Not always but if you anticipate well then it's not soo difficult.. Soo either c4ll you don't position yourself correctly while volleying or you don't know how to counter them.

I didnt had any problems with lobs either. But that shot is unrealistic. I think this shot is useful just with monster defense.

[Ali-Iqb93]

Yea hitting lobs during rallies is annoying because it jams your player if you are preparing to counter it with power shot but nadal also use it in real life like rob said which is also annoying to watch

[C4iLL]

@Djarvik : I perfectly understand you cannot make a rule just because one people complains

Anyway about World tour, I've said elsewhere on the forum that strangely, nobody plays like that there.
This is paradoxal as this place is full of lamers and other cheesy tactics. The only guys that have played like that against me are on ITST.

@Those who think I'm not well placed etc...
I'm playing this game since June 2011 as a SV, currently n°11 on normal Xbox tour (and soon in top10 despite bad results), n°4 on Sim with a SV setup too, had only 1 defeat in WT in almost 90 quick matches...
Without any pretention, I don't think there is someone in both PS3 and Xbox tour, that better knows how to be well placed to hit a volley or to anticipate those lobs.

You talk about lobs, but you go to the net at max 20 times by match... It's like Fifa Tee and Sh0case, they think they are the best net players, just because they win 20 points at the net without a setup dedicated to volleys...

You can't compare these situations with someone who always goes to the net like me, like 70-100 times in a 3 set match. Just take a SV setup, play a tournament here in 3 sets, and afterwards, I think you will better understand what I mean.

[ILuvBillVal]

Al and Rob the baseline lob thing is pretty bad, no joke. It's because of the dodgy movement in the game. Sometimes the game will just lock you into place when someone hits the lob, but it won't be a position where the player attempts a smash and instead you have to swing and it never seems to let you hit much of a shot on it. That's where it gets annoying because not only does the shot itself give them ample time to attempt to get back on the court, the movement problem then gives them ample time to get into IDEAL position to try and reclaim the point.

Sometimes this doesn't happen of course but for even the SOMETIMES it does that's pretty cheesy. And I think that's what these gentlemen speak of and I would say from an unbiased perspective that they are correct.

[Tamthewasp]

Al and Rob the baseline lob thing is pretty bad, no joke. It's because of the dodgy movement in the game. Sometimes the game will just lock you into place when someone hits the lob, but it won't be a position where the player attempts a smash and instead you have to swing and it never seems to let you hit much of a shot on it. That's where it gets annoying because not only does the shot itself give them ample time to attempt to get back on the court, the movement problem then gives them ample time to get into IDEAL position to try and reclaim the point.

Sometimes this doesn't happen of course but for even the SOMETIMES it does that's pretty cheesy. And I think that's what these gentlemen speak of and I would say from an unbiased perspective that they are correct.

Kind of exactly what I tried 2 say. When you get rooted 2 the spot wnd can't move

[Ali-Iqb93]

Yea and poumadoro was the one spamming lobs from the baseline again n again whenever I was about to hit a winner..At first I thought that he is using topspins but later I found that lobs locks your player.. Whenever lobs from baseline comes into discussion then poumadoro is the first person always to come into my mind.. It was damn annoying to play him.. Always hitting lobs when on defense and player got stucked at one place and won't move and in the meantime poumadoro used to get enough time to come back into the court position

[Fifa Tee]

You talk about lobs, but you go to the net at max 20 times by match... It's like Fifa Tee and Sh0case, they think they are the best net players, just because they win 20 points at the net without a setup dedicated to volleys...

Never said I am the best net player, i just think i am better than you at the net..

[Sh0Case]

You talk about lobs, but you go to the net at max 20 times by match... It's like Fifa Tee and Sh0case, they think they are the best net players, just because they win 20 points at the net without a setup dedicated to volleys...

Never said I am the best net player, i just think Fifa Tee is better than you at the net..