Pro Tour (random pics)

[ELTXETXU]

I remember that, when i was playing TS3 and i get the right timing i could feel the ball and do exactly what i wanted to do, even the ball went out. Its hard to explain. It was like when you play real tennis, and feels that you can do what you want and you can place the ball where you want. I've never had the same feeling in TS4. That's the reason because i prefer TS3. TS4 is more arcade. Anyway, i like TS4 too.

[djarvik]

Well yeah, TS3 had "stiffer controls" if you will. Sorta like a sports car stiff as opposed to a mini-van smooth. Not to everyone liking, but nevertheless it replicated the slow first step and direction changes better then TS4 does. TS4 controls are more "comfortable" - but I would not say they are better. They lack freedom and they lock you into good hitting position. Try pressing a shot button when ball comes at you and run the opposite direction of the ball. The game wont let you. It would lock you in. Pre-scripted. Even on the wrong-foots, it pre-scripted.

TS3 had less of a lock in on positioning an even less on a shot. Meaning if you dont release the button - the shot won't happen, and if you are a few steps to the ball, the game wont "pull" you to the ball on its own.

Volleys. Well, TS4 made everyone able to hit any volleys with ease. Everyone is a volley master. In TS3 if you don't know what you doing - you will see balls flying by you. Way better system if you ask me. Sure, TS4 looks great with all the volley animations, but you hardly need any effort to execute even the most complex of them.

Again, these are all controls and you cited "gameplay". Controls are part of it, but there is much more.

I do appreciate however you last comment of not wanting to put in the hours. That to me that's the epiphany, the main point. I DO want to put in the hours to discover depth. Endless possibilities. TS4 is too much of a pick-up-and-play.

I will dust off my TS3 disc this weekend. So if anyone is up for a Marathon of friendly matches, let me know.

[djarvik]

I remember that, when i was playing TS3 and i get the right timing i could feel the ball and do exactly what i wanted to do, even the ball went out. Its hard to explain. It was like when you play real tennis, and feels that you can do what you want and you can place the ball where you want. I've never had the same feeling in TS4. That's the reason because i prefer TS3. TS4 is more arcade. Anyway, i like TS4 too.

Spot on.

[DennieFR1908]

Alright alright

At least Ali is having fun with it. Looks like Dennie got upset

Dennie - I LOVE TS4! Its the best EVA!

Lol don't take yourself to serious man I'm not always on this site

You may have your opinion I won't get upset... everyone his own taste. You think TS4 is a bad game, I don't like ts3

Is ts4 perfect? Absolutely no. There are many things I don't like about the game. The one dimensionality is a big one. From time to time I get tired of the game becuase of it. But there are great things also. The basic of the game is almost perfect for me. Only thing I would see different is more freedom in the movement. Another what would give the game instantly alot more variety is like ali also said to early to late etc should give more EU. The principle of tennis elbow. when you hit to early or to late you have a bigger landing spot to subscribe it with my broken english.Now it's more 'protected from going out.' Don't understand why this didn't happen when you helped creating a new update djarvik? With this risk should wouldn't be needed anymore... Also more movement freedom would instantly add alot of variety. Simple and realistic solutions, shame they never came..

[djarvik]

Funny part that solutions you are talking about are in TS3 seriously.

OK enough of that. I think when I voice my opinion and present my arguments I get accused of dismissing other's opinion. I am arguing just like you or anyone else. I see my opinion on the subject as correct to me and bring valid arguments for it. I also have experience in both games as well as running both tours. So it gives me a bit more feel then you perhaps, but that is still only my opinion. Don't let the title fool you, I am not proclaiming anything on ITST's behalf, rather on my own, my own opinion.

I would appreciate that you don't jump on me.....although I rather enjoy it, I am ready to jump back, just don't cry after


Just to clarify, the updates that were done to the game could not change the game mechanics. The way the game is built is the way it is. If you remember - I loved it early on. Played a lot, defending the game much like you did. But now, I changed my opinion, having more experience with it. I simply have nothing more to look forward from the game. I know how each point is going to play out.... it is simply boring at this point beyond my 15-30 minute WT fix.

[Corbon]

Just played a few TS3 matches against the CPU on Very Hard.

Timing is more difficult than in TS4, the game doesn't immediately tell you if you hit the ball well or not but you'll know that you did everything right when the ball rockets over the net at 100 mph into a corner. I had to get used to the timing window, my first swings were always late, sometimes I would miss the ball completely and my player still attempted a swing despite the ball already being far behind (looks stupid and the overall animation is kinda sluggish, even bordering on looking ugly). Player faces also look bad, personally I can't see Murray no matter how long I look at him but TS4 has a similar problem (Wozniacki, Ivanovic).

Serve mechanics seem to be better, I can hit aces with cross serves, something of an impossibility in TS4 but then I have 100 SRV and 100 PWR. Regardless you should expect to hit aces when serving cross court without serving wide.

Graphically TS4 is a clear improvement (animation, overall presentation), musically it's crap (I bought Calvin Harris - I Created Disco after listening to his songs on TS3 long enough). Sound is much better in TS4 though. Coaches in TS4 are an amazing addition.

I realize that ITST top players are at the top of the TS4 food chain but you can't create a game around the best players. Blizzard did that in Vanilla WoW with the result that 50% of the game's content was restricted to hardcore raiders. Since then it's been made far more casual (epics for everyone) but I quit years ago because it was too time consuming. A game developer must juggle between keeping the hardcore players motivated but also drawing new players to the game and that is where new money comes in because the hardcores will buy the game anyway. That means not too many UE's, not too complicated game mechanisms. There's no subscription but there will be a TS5 and pissing off either player base won't do any good.

Still, support for TS4 is rubbish, I'd honestly pay money for having something as simple as 4 additional save slots and more stable servers.

Edit: TS4 is great as a platform for the ultimate tennis game. Let's hope TS5 will be the one.

[djarvik]

TS3 CPU is garbage. You should not be losing points, let alone games or sets on the hardest difficulty. If you are - you nowhere near as good as any ITST player form that time. 99 out of 100 trashed CPU.

I agree on the graphics part, that is actually expected, as well as animations. After all this is a new game, it needs to be graphically better, to appeal to the most basic and front line sense to get any sort of sales momentum.

While I agree generally about the balance in all games, that it has to lay somewhere between the hardcore and the pick-up play, I learned (and hope 2K too) my lesson that tennis games are unique. I now think they needed to take it even further with TS4 to the hardcore side of it. Sales figures and following seconds that. TS3 sold better then any game out there, lasted longer as well (on console). Tennis is such a sport that if you don't understand the tiny details, the risk factors, certain play situations - you get lost. It starting to seem like a simple game of pong. Basically the ball is going back and forth back and forth.....and that is boring to the majority of population. Games like VT series, GS2, Smash court tennis all tried to go the route you proposing and stay closer to pick-up play style. Result? ....all these games are dead in less then a year. Boredom kills them. Same goes for TS4. Way too much of instant gratification, an all-out hand that is rather good - but the game is over fast too. There is no intrigue, no mystique, no new ways/plays. TS3 - I still feel there is more depth to it, even after playing it to the death for 3 years.

I think any new tennis game needs to take direction more towards complexity then towards simplicity. As TS3 shown, there are a lot of loyal tennis fans that NEED that complexity in order to be interested in the game and as TS4, GST2 and VT shown that these games wont sell better no matter how good the graphics are and how easy it is to pick up. People looking for an easy pickup tennis games are simply not the core of fan base of tennis.

[Fifa Tee]

This is why Tennis Elbow needs to be made on the big consoles.

[djarvik]

This is why Tennis Elbow needs to be made on the big consoles.

Totally agree, that and DMT. Both concepts are superior to any game out there, including my beloved TS3

[emate007]

The TS3 created player aspect was weak

TS4 is alot more balanced than TS3.

Djarviks point is solid too, from a TS3 Veteran perspective... but I'm not one, so i cant really comment but i have noticed that Top players on TS3 may have left due to it being a bad game..

What do you mean? I said never got to play TS3 on ITST as i never knew about the site... So i cant comment on the views of those who loved TS3.

I found the post as a whole irrelevant: you commented on and criticized a couple aspects of TS3, then qualified the whole paragraph by saying you weren't in a position to comment or criticize. Unless I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

edit, just reread it carefully and I did misunderstand. You meant that veterans would have a different take on it than you did, right? My mistake.

[C4iLL]

My idea was just about adding some suspense to the tournaments. If the glitchers are forced to use Tomic, maybe they would loose against an average Nadal.

I'm not partularly for, or against, but it would just be funnier ^^

[Corbon]

While I agree generally about the balance in all games, that it has to lay somewhere between the hardcore and the pick-up play, I learned (and hope 2K too) my lesson that tennis games are unique. I now think they needed to take it even further with TS4 to the hardcore side of it. Sales figures and following seconds that. TS3 sold better then any game out there, lasted longer as well (on console). Tennis is such a sport that if you don't understand the tiny details, the risk factors, certain play situations - you get lost. It starting to seem like a simple game of pong. Basically the ball is going back and forth back and forth.....and that is boring to the majority of population. Games like VT series, GS2, Smash court tennis all tried to go the route you proposing and stay closer to pick-up play style. Result? ....all these games are dead in less then a year. Boredom kills them. Same goes for TS4. Way too much of instant gratification, an all-out hand that is rather good - but the game is over fast too. There is no intrigue, no mystique, no new ways/plays. TS3 - I still feel there is more depth to it, even after playing it to the death for 3 years.

I think any new tennis game needs to take direction more towards complexity then towards simplicity. As TS3 shown, there are a lot of loyal tennis fans that NEED that complexity in order to be interested in the game and as TS4, GST2 and VT shown that these games wont sell better no matter how good the graphics are and how easy it is to pick up. People looking for an easy pickup tennis games are simply not the core of fan base of tennis.

Cut off the first two paragraphs of your post because they're self-explanatory.

Well for me a solo career mode is very important, even if it kinda defeats the online aspect but I have always been keen on beating the "machine" (never been big in WoW PvP but had a fairly good raid progress). I'm coming from the 8-Bit era, where terms like online or internet didn't even exist and if you got stuck on a game you had to buy a magazine in hoping to find a wimpy FAQ or ask a friend.

When I look at contemporary "tennis" games much simpler than TS4, they don't even compare, I would even call it a stretch to to call VT4 a tennis game, 80% of the time you're running around a world map as if playing Risk but end up playing crappy minigames. The tennis aspect is forgettable. Took it back after renting it for 3 days. GST2 is garbage from just watching a few videos, not even gonna try it out. It feels like watching Nintendo Tennis at the arcade. So TS4, even with its flaws, has a solid base. But when I look at much simpler games like New Star Tennis which has an amazing career mode (though gameplay is much simpler), there's still a lot that can be done, also through licenses.

Tennis as a whole is a rather simple game to convert to consoles while it took a loooong time to finally create a convincing Football (Soccer) game, due to technical limitations (32 Bit onwards). But I think TS4 is complex and simple enough to bridge the gap between casuals and hardcores.

But, like any other company, 2K is a profit-oriented business. If they had the choice between satisfying 10.000 hardcores and 50.000 casuals or 5.000 hardcores and 100.000 casuals the CEO would pick the latter option.