Bring Monster Defense back

[Likos86321]

thanks for your kind words man, i appreciate it

About the 2nd match i remember vividly that i chose neuwrith and you chose moriya again. Bagel and then you asked to change player, i stick with my neuwrith and you with your big server guy.

I don't know if there was a glitch or anything and it was showing you welch instead of neuwrith

[Ary1g]

Welsh.
http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16165
Your Poll shows that it should not be banned. But that's not the issue. The issue is that a good number of players here WANT to play with welsh. Banning this setup will result in sharp decline in draw sizes and would not be fair. Welsh is part of tier one group that includes a few more coaches, if you want to compete of similar playing field - pick one of these. If you are annoyed because you choose to play with a "lesser" setup against them and have hard time, well, that is your issue. Banning welsh will only shift the problem. I am starting to sound like echo... That's the issue, you simply disagree with this and I accept that, but you should too.

Isn't it really obvious that players here want to use him? He is arguably the best coach in TS4 and probably the most used coach here on ITST. Of course people would want to use him. If you learn control shots, he is by far the most effective coach with control shots. New members can easily find out that Welsh is a build to try, just by taking a quick peak through the forums here, and I don't believe that any new member who master control shots would want Welsh banned if they've tried him. Hence, number of votes against banning Welsh could easily be higher than the number of votes wanting to ban him.

Also, when did you start caring for poll results??

If you're going to use a vote as an argument to keep Welsh, then why wasn't I given more support finding a attribute restriction?

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15773

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15956



I think Dennie has some very good points in his post as a whole. It is waaay to difficult to even get a test tournament here on ITST. Is it really that difficult arranging one extra tournament two or three times a year?
You say it isn't needed, while polls shows that people would want a attribute restriction.

Now, I'm guessing many here will attack my attempt at having a test tournament. However, its failure was due to many factors imo.

It was arranged right around christmas, which probably was the worst time I could have picked to arrange it. There was no official tournaments, which lead to less activity on the forums and when I gave my tournament a start date, ITST arranged a christmas ITST Open tournament.

I'm going to comment more thoroughly some other day. It's very late and I'm very tired now. See you around for more discussions!

[Ary1g]

thanks for your kind words man, i appreciate it

About the 2nd match i remember vividly that i chose neuwrith and you chose moriya again. Bagel and then you asked to change player, i stick with my neuwrith and you with your big server guy.

I don't know if there was a glitch or anything and it was showing you welch instead of neuwrith

It must have been a glitch then, cause I'm certain that I saw you using Welsh again. Same stats, and same skills

At least we're both certain about the third game where I used Zamecnik against your Neuwirth. Too bad my game froze, as I think the second set would have become much more interesting than the first.

Next time we play, I want to (knowingly) play your Neuwirth with my Moriya!

[VillaJ100]

No, Monster Defence kicks in when you are losing in a GAME. You could be winning 6-0 6-0 5-0 but be 15-30 down in one game, and MD will activate. As soon as you are level, it will deactivate. Likewise, if you are losing 4-6 3-5, but are 30-0 up in a GAME, you won't have monster defence! Its ridiculous to think you have MD constatly when you are losing overall. It is only specific to that current game you are playing....

Which brings me onto another point. TS3 was a simulator game. True it had some flaws, which could be glaring flaws if people exploited them to the max, BUT if people chose a realistic, actual tennis based setup, a lot of close competitive matches and fun could be had. From these ideas, the SIM tour was born. Now, TS4 is a arcade-come-simulator game. It is designed from the ground up to appeal to diehard tennis fans like ourselves and the casual fan who watches just the wimby or USO final...

Which begs the question, how many people have played the misc. scoring modes in TS4? Such as king of the court, hyper/super/tiebreak and all the others? Funnily enough the perks fit in quite well... which would make sense to a casual gaming point of view. Its just ironic i suppose the perk system doesnt translate well to actual tennis scoring.

I have been playing a lot of pro matches with Sampras lately, and having a lot of fun. But this 'perk' system TS4 has implemented is a really bad idea.

[Corbon]

It's also active during a tie break, which means that it could be theoretically active for a full 19 points (hyper tie break).

[Ary1g]

It's also active during a tie break, which means that it could be theoretically active for a full 19 points (hyper tie break).

Still, you won't have it active to win the tie-break. So in order to win the tie-break, you have to do all the work yourself.

If you get a game point in a tie-break with Welsh and SoB, you get better shots on your game point, hence get an unfair (if not both are using Welsh) advantage to win the tie-break.

[Ali-Iqb93]

Will you believe that one of my practice partners just destroyed me with his newly created welch 6-3 6-1.. Against his rabari we had very nice 3setter tough matches.. But today his overpowered welch destroyed me lol.. Soo many people here want welch banned.. Only thOse don't want him to be banned who use welch

[Corbon]

It's also active during a tie break, which means that it could be theoretically active for a full 19 points (hyper tie break).

Still, you won't have it active to win the tie-break. So in order to win the tie-break, you have to do all the work yourself.

If you get a game point in a tie-break with Welsh and SoB, you get better shots on your game point, hence get an unfair (if not both are using Welsh) advantage to win the tie-break.

Well yeah for a full two points.

[Ary1g]

Well I'm ranked 10 in the women's game and I play with a balanced setup as Hingis. The problem I found is once you get beaten by a player using a particular setup...you immediately want to change,your own setup...BIG MISTAKE! Stick with YOUR game and develop.your own unique playing style. I only use 53 on power and I do well against the top players.

What coach do you use?

Will you believe that one of my practice partners just destroyed me with his newly created welch 6-3 6-1.. Against his rabari we had very nice 3setter tough matches.. But today his overpowered welch destroyed me lol.. Soo many people here want welch banned.. Only thOse don't want him to be banned who use welch

Agree. Most of the people who's here to win, would try out Welsh and as I've mentioned earlier, if you master control shots well, you wouldn't want Welsh banned.

It's also active during a tie break, which means that it could be theoretically active for a full 19 points (hyper tie break).

Still, you won't have it active to win the tie-break. So in order to win the tie-break, you have to do all the work yourself.

If you get a game point in a tie-break with Welsh and SoB, you get better shots on your game point, hence get an unfair (if not both are using Welsh) advantage to win the tie-break.

Well yeah for a full two points.

Yes, in a close match, those two points might be very deciding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Djarvik, have you read this post? I would have very much appreciated a response to it.
http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... c&start=46

[Ali-Iqb93]

Problem is welch allow you to hit short cross control shots and winners down the line equally well.. Their cross court angles are pathetic that none of the other coach allows you to hit.. The high moon balls of welch are even worse.. The ability to reach every ball and return it with control shots cross courts makes it even worst to play against.. Playing a top guy with his Rabari player or neuwrith is soo much fun. But playing even a normal welch guy is very frustrating. And playing a very good welch guy makes it even worst

[djarvik]

Welsh.
http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16165
Your Poll shows that it should not be banned. But that's not the issue. The issue is that a good number of players here WANT to play with welsh. Banning this setup will result in sharp decline in draw sizes and would not be fair. Welsh is part of tier one group that includes a few more coaches, if you want to compete of similar playing field - pick one of these. If you are annoyed because you choose to play with a "lesser" setup against them and have hard time, well, that is your issue. Banning welsh will only shift the problem. I am starting to sound like echo... That's the issue, you simply disagree with this and I accept that, but you should too.

Isn't it really obvious that players here want to use him? He is arguably the best coach in TS4 and probably the most used coach here on ITST. Of course people would want to use him. If you learn control shots, he is by far the most effective coach with control shots. New members can easily find out that Welsh is a build to try, just by taking a quick peak through the forums here, and I don't believe that any new member who master control shots would want Welsh banned if they've tried him. Hence, number of votes against banning Welsh could easily be higher than the number of votes wanting to ban him.

Also, when did you start caring for poll results??

If you're going to use a vote as an argument to keep Welsh, then why wasn't I given more support finding a attribute restriction?

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15773

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15956



I think Dennie has some very good points in his post as a whole. It is waaay to difficult to even get a test tournament here on ITST. Is it really that difficult arranging one extra tournament two or three times a year?
You say it isn't needed, while polls shows that people would want a attribute restriction.

Now, I'm guessing many here will attack my attempt at having a test tournament. However, its failure was due to many factors imo.

It was arranged right around christmas, which probably was the worst time I could have picked to arrange it. There was no official tournaments, which lead to less activity on the forums and when I gave my tournament a start date, ITST arranged a christmas ITST Open tournament.

I'm going to comment more thoroughly some other day. It's very late and I'm very tired now. See you around for more discussions!

Again, I will sound like Echo. I feel like I am talking to a wall really. I see your point, I just disagree with it. If you want me to explain why again, I will, for the last time.

ITST has to cater to desires of our members. Management is in-place to identify these and enforce within limits and reason. The reasoning behind not banning Welsh is the desire of the tour first and foremost, then the fact that we strongly believe banning coaches will only result in other coaches being asked to be banned (see day-1 and complaints about MD coaches, we banned these, now you want banned the other ones).

The reasons for not banning 98/98 is a general lack of success of this setup on the tour. I don't buy bull**** about the top 20 or even 30 not using him because they are nice guys. Yes, many people want this setup to be gone, and this is a part in our decision making, but you need to understand that it is not enough. If it would be enough we would eventually end up with no coaches. Someone loses to Neutrich, runs a poll or rounds up "troops" and we should ban the coach? No we wont.

We always care about the polls, but that is part of the puzzle.

Your Test tournament failed because there was no interest. This will now always work against you, in every argument. You tried - you failed. Stop making excuses, it was your failure, learn to accept it.

As for Dennie, I never said he does not have good points. In fact I mostly agree with his game observations, I just don't agree with call for actions and the digs.

Like I said, we always look into all the polls, opinions. We will look at this thread as well.

[DennieFR1908]

Problem is welch allow you to hit short cross control shots and winners down the line equally well.. Their cross court angles are pathetic that none of the other coach allows you to hit.. The high moon balls of welch are even worse.. The ability to reach every ball and return it with control shots cross courts makes it even worst to play against.. Playing a top guy with his Rabari player or neuwrith is soo much fun. But playing even a normal welch guy is very frustrating. And playing a very good welch guy makes it even worst

lol. yea I had asked obskur 2 create a welch setup because hes such a good player (on skill based perhaps the best i've played ) and always gets cheesed by short crossers... he just pm-ed me how crazy easily welch is 2 use, 'even with bad timing everything goes perfect'. I destroy his rabary with my welch, i have destroyed your rabary with my welch and he destroyed your rabary with his welch .. its obvious. u just try and create an welch and play my neuwirth and you will see what will happen. It proves there are not 4 dominant setups but actually only 2 who avoids the law of nature of this game: ultra power and the ultra placement skill. djarvik this is is also why i believe there will not be other overrated setups. if MD was still there, these setups would just be in-line with those if not in my opinion maybe even stronger. There is only 1 setup of which i think it could be trouble and thats a 85 75 wings and 90+ speed slavina.. altough its not vry popular so i dont think it will be overpowered. ban welch and restrict power and speed (or stats in general) over 90 could resolve alot. From your words it almost seems u scared of losing ppl by banning welch.. understandable but dont u think there will be enough ppl leaving because of him?

[djarvik]

Not scared. I have nothing to lose to be scared

Either way, someone will stay someone will leave. It will balance out. It just becomes a question of what road to take right?

I prefer to always find an alternative, that will allow both "camps" to stay.

[DennieFR1908]

yea i gues so i believe a balanced tour will attract the most competitive ppl and less 'cheesers' the more fun a tour will be the bigger it will become and i really believe this could be helping by that.

wouldn't it be possible to organize a test tournament with banning welch and power (or stats in general) restriction above 90 for once? I'll take care there will be enough ppl for it

[djarvik]

Sadly, something similar was tried, not many cared for it.

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16071