Bring Monster Defense back

[VillaJ100]

That's funny. I seem to have it, yet I am no level 10 Edberg. Hmmm, how peculiar.

This is obviously a huge error!

[Avinash PatelBANNED]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

Pl m.

N

Scared?

[djarvik]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

Pl m.

N

Scrd?

s, shtlss

[Avinash PatelBANNED]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

Pl m.

N

Scrd?

s, shtlss

U shud be.

[djarvik]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

Pl m.

N

Scrd?

s, shtlss

shd b.

m.

[C4iLL]

Monster Defense is not a skill, it's just a cheat. 100% cheat, 100% shit, don't bring it back on the tour please !

btw : the 98/98 setup is not as abused as the 90 FH/BH setups are since the last update.

@Sh0case : about the ban of Fifa, it's strange that nobody seems to miss him actually ; when Berson was banned a lot of people react to complain about such a ban whereas he was more a steamroller than Fifa.

[Tamthewasp]

Well I'm ranked 10 in the women's game and I play with a balanced setup as Hingis. The problem I found is once you get beaten by a player using a particular setup...you immediately want to change,your own setup...BIG MISTAKE! Stick with YOUR game and develop.your own unique playing style. I only use 53 on power and I do well against the top players.

Agreed. After you lose 2 a certain setup it is bad 2 change setups. In all my ITST matches I have used 3 setups. 2 very similar +plus 1 2 counter a certain setup. It does'nt work.
I'm going 2 98/98 the ps3 tour soon. Be warned

[edlglide]

When I played Firderis the other day, I really noticed how he could hit winners from literally everywhere when having a break point or game point. Which is almost cheesy when you've fought your way to 40-0(or a game point at all) on serve against Welsh, just to being crushed back to deuce.

Smell of blood isn't why Welch can hit winners from anywhere. He can hit winners from anywhere because of his wings and because his speed lets him get to any ball and hit it from a decent position instead of on the run.

I've played a lot of matches against Welch, and they can hit winners from absurd spots on the court down 40-0 just as easily as they can in a point where SoB is active.

[Sh0Case]

Monster Defense is not a skill, it's just a cheat. 100% cheat, 100% shit, don't bring it back on the tour please !

btw : the 98/98 setup is not as abused as the 90 FH/BH setups are since the last update.

@Sh0case : about the ban of Fifa, it's strange that nobody seems to miss him actually ; when Berson was banned a lot of people react to complain about such a ban whereas he was more a steamroller than Fifa.

What does this actually mean?

Many people have sent PMs to him or me asking about his ban etc so that's incorrect.
However, Berson had been on ITST for years., he's a legend. Fifa Tee hasn't even been here for a year. The biggest difference is the circumstances of Berson's ban were made public, including his suspension. That hasn't been the case for Fifa Tee so it's completely different.
I'm sure most people have a problem with me but not with Fifa Tee though.
Anyway, Fifa Tee is back so

BTW, I noticed you haven't posted any new headlines since the Australian Open week 1 review.

[Ary1g]

When I played Firderis the other day, I really noticed how he could hit winners from literally everywhere when having a break point or game point. Which is almost cheesy when you've fought your way to 40-0(or a game point at all) on serve against Welsh, just to being crushed back to deuce.

Smell of blood isn't why Welch can hit winners from anywhere. He can hit winners from anywhere because of his wings and because his speed lets him get to any ball and hit it from a decent position instead of on the run.

I've played a lot of matches against Welch, and they can hit winners from absurd spots on the court down 40-0 just as easily as they can in a point where SoB is active.

Yes, they can hit winners from everywhere without SoB if you allow them. However, on game/break points, they can hit winners from places they normally can't hit winners from. I played Likos yesterday. If I sliced deep in either corner, he could rarely hit a winner from that position. He most of the time needed to wrong-foot me to get winners when my deep slices were good. Then guess what.. On break points and game points, he could hit winners from everywhere. I think I had around 4 to 7 break points against him and even broke his serve once or twice. I don't really remember it all that well, because I tried to enjoy the match, rather than caring about the scores. Anyway, it's easily noticeable when SoB kicks in! The shots have much more pace and depth. Also, very often, they become juust a little too far out of reach for your player to try a shot at all.

So many people here think that it isn't really any big difference. It's just the top players being insanely good. Explain then how I played 2-6, 1-6 against Likos. It's not just luck that gave me those three games. Hell, I was using Masaki Moriya against his Welsh! Even Zooloo, in a friendly match a while back, changed his player Neuwirth to a less powerful defensive baseliner when he saw that I was using Moriya. So the one build Likos have used in all of his tournaments of my knowledge. I was able to get to many break points and even break his serve. Ask him if you don't believe me. Maybe he had a bad day. I don't know. Again you'll have to ask him. At least it didn't seem to me that he just breezed through the first match we played. Also it seemed that he had enough competition to enjoy playing the whole match and want to play more matches afterwards.

I'm just so tired of people disregarding my abilities in this game..

Moving on to Monster Defense. I just played a great player on PSN 30 minutes ago. He used Nadal and I used a Grody build I haven't used before. Found it on the TS4 calculator and thought of it the whole day, wondering how it would play. He won the first set 6-3. Then I battled back to win the second 6-2 and the third 6-4. It seems to me that Monster Defense doesn't kick in based on the score of the match at all. It only kicks in based on the score in a single game. Not based on score in a set either. What also supports my theory on this, is the skill explanation 2K have written to Monster Defense. Here goes:

"You play more precise shots and and make less errors when you are trailing in a game."

Notice "in a game". It's really an impossible thought that the developers made such a massive term error for one of the trademark skills of Nadal. Which is considered by many to be the best player in the game. They just can't have made such a big mistake and then not fixing it! It's one simple word change needed: "in a match".

So yes, it's very hard to play against MD because you always have to fight on your serve games and really dig deep on return games to break them.

However, it's soo much more satisfying to play against MD than playing against SoB. Just knowing that when you lose a break point to your opponent on your serve, it was the one behind the controller playing great without any help from the game engine, not the game engine improving your opponents shots, along with them playing great.

EDIT: btw, going to bed now.. see you!

[DennieFR1908]

We always listen to the opinions. We also analyze.

Just because a member has an opinion and management doesn't enforce it doesn't mean "the main characters who decide about this on this site doesn't play TS4 so don't really care". First because you are way off base. I play TS4, to my knowledge Cro and Rob do to.


You don't see eye to eye with us, that's true. But no need to attribute something that is not there. I care for ITST, tours and players more then you think and your little "digs" here and there not only misplaced, but also leave a bit of a sour taste in mouth of people who spend their personal time so you have a place to come and enjoy.

Lets stay friends and try to either discuss the subject, or not.

98/98 - how many titles where won by this setup? How many players in the Top 10 use it? Where are these "Any bad willing guy can take it and ruin the tour if he is really good" and why do you have to include "if he is really good". Isn't it the key? ...being good? Same good 98/98 player that can "ruin" the tour can do so with other setups, including the so called "fair ones". So the key is "Being Good". 98/98 setups are not versatile enough, there are other setups that are simple better suited for winning big titles - and it shows. Believe me, the tour players want to win and if they felt that 98/98 players have some kind of significant advantage - they be all using it and the top 10, 20, 30 would include about 70-80% of 98/98 players. As it stands - it is not the case.

I wanted to say that I rarely lose to these, but you will dismiss it by saying "I am not playing on the same level" so I wont bother.

I'm sorry for my tone it was not my intention to disrespect the management you guys are awesome for doing all this work I have great respect but i don't understand why we should discuss, if your oppinion is already made. Changes are excluded and what other people say doesn't seem to matter.. last time something changed is when Monster defense was banned at the beginning but after that nothing happened.

Didn't you "analize" how many people voted to ban 98 power setups? didn't you analize how many complainments there are about Welch? These are just tour destroying setups. Everytime i have played a Welch setup, my motivation dropped down to zero, because people play on short crosses all day, plus it is really easy to execute if you can play the game. So what you get are predictable, not fun matches which ruin the tour. Same goes for the 98 setup. It's no coincedence that 90% of the complainments are about these setups right? Why don't you follow the signes.. I just believe you guys should take the oppinions more seriously, when there are so many.

With these setups gone there won't be any people on itst who plays with Welch for revenge, like my last opponent who said and I quote: "I played murmeltier and lost to him 88 times, I now play with welch untill he is banned, I'm sorry." Result, i get another annoying welch against me, and more and more people will start to think like this. Now what.. should I take Welch too to be able to compete with the other Welches? I gues I have to give up my playstyle to be able to fully compete with them. I don't want to quit ITST because I still like it alot but it is just dissapointing for me that you guys don't act when there is are many people who are complaining about these setups, and I also don't want to lose to people who are not better then me, but use Welch or 98/98 (I don't see a lot of 98/98 setups, but I know how ugly this playstyle is, it's another alien setup, not realistic). Perhaps some people will now take 98 power setups to compete with Welch. This is what I mean with destroying the tour.

What I talk about arn't "digs" it are well based conclusions which have support for many many players of this site. It's not like I'm just talking crap here or something I think it's also for the best interest of this site. There will be many happy faces without these 2 playstyles, and the guys who use them can use plenty of other setups to stick to there playstyles.

Btw, Monster defense gives you an advantage everytime you trail in the match, 90/90 strokes give you the ability to play monster defense from every corner, and monster angles the entire match, monster defense skill is not required, + they get a smell of blood bonus at every imortant point, lol!

And the only reason the top players on ps3 tour doesn't play with 98 power setups, is that they are all fair players, there is also only 1 Welch I believe, which doesn't abuse him..I have satisfying matches against Likos but sad for him there are many people who do. I wish "being good" was the key, but it isn't. I think banning Welch and restrict power to let's say 90 are realistic to realize and can help in making "being really good" the key. Conclusion is simple for me, being really good + Welch or 98 power setup = unplayable setup who can't be beaten by just "really good" players. Only an "extremely good" player like sh0Case can do that. And still he would need all of his short cross tricks for it.

Anyway, I can say everything I wan't, it won't have any effect anyway.

[Ali-Iqb93]

Have to ageee with dennie.. Even if you guys don't ban welch or 98/98 setup then I believe restricting their stats to a certain specified minimum level will still make them less overpowered..

[djarvik]

I'm sorry for my tone it was not my intention to disrespect the management you guys are awesome for doing all this work I have great respect but i don't understand why we should discuss, if your oppinion is already made. Changes are excluded and what other people say doesn't seem to matter.. last time something changed is when Monster defense was banned at the beginning but after that nothing happened.

When you say "your opinion" I hope you mean option of the management. We have a team in place. The reason why the change were not done is because we didn't see the need.

Didn't you "analize" how many people voted to ban 98 power setups? didn't you analize how many complainments there are about Welch? These are just tour destroying setups. Everytime i have played a Welch setup, my motivation dropped down to zero, because people play on short crosses all day, plus it is really easy to execute if you can play the game. So what you get are predictable, not fun matches which ruin the tour. Same goes for the 98 setup. It's no coincedence that 90% of the complainments are about these setups right? Why don't you follow the signes.. I just believe you guys should take the oppinions more seriously, when there are so many.

98/98 - I did. We did. I also answered this question in another thread. In order for us to classify a setup as overpowered and ban it, we need to see results on the tour. Poll is great and a good starting point, but it reflects a lot of personal preference - which is also a big thing here, but not the sole factor. Just because people are annoyed by playing a certain setup does not makes it over-powered.

Welsh.
http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16165
Your Poll shows that it should not be banned. But that's not the issue. The issue is that a good number of players here WANT to play with welsh. Banning this setup will result in sharp decline in draw sizes and would not be fair. Welsh is part of tier one group that includes a few more coaches, if you want to compete of similar playing field - pick one of these. If you are annoyed because you choose to play with a "lesser" setup against them and have hard time, well, that is your issue. Banning welsh will only shift the problem. I am starting to sound like echo... That's the issue, you simply disagree with this and I accept that, but you should too.

With these setups gone there won't be any people on itst who plays with Welch for revenge, like my last opponent who said and I quote: "I played murmeltier and lost to him 88 times, I now play with welch untill he is banned, I'm sorry." Result, i get another annoying welch against me, and more and more people will start to think like this. Now what.. should I take Welch too to be able to compete with the other Welches? I gues I have to give up my playstyle to be able to fully compete with them. I don't want to quit ITST because I still like it alot but it is just dissapointing for me that you guys don't act when there is are many people who are complaining about these setups, and I also don't want to lose to people who are not better then me, but use Welch or 98/98 (I don't see a lot of 98/98 setups, but I know how ugly this playstyle is, it's another alien setup, not realistic). Perhaps some people will now take 98 power setups to compete with Welch. This is what I mean with destroying the tour.

See my reply to previous paragraph. We cannot make everyone happy, but we can make "most" happy. "Most" dont want Welsh banned, most want to use him. Wanna compete, pick him or pick the other 3-4 tier one setups, that are all happen to be rather varied styles. Beyond that, we are at the mercies of games design. Banning one coach shifts the problem to the other, with each coach banning we will lose some players, eventually leaving too little to have the tour.

What I talk about arn't "digs" it are well based conclusions which have support for many many players of this site. It's not like I'm just talking crap here or something I think it's also for the best interest of this site. There will be many happy faces without these 2 playstyles, and the guys who use them can use plenty of other setups to stick to there playstyles.

They ARE digs. You attributing to me and other members of
ITST management things that are far from truth. You have very little insight of what we do, how we do it, how much time is being spent, yet you quick to judge us. There is a GOOD reason ITST is here for 8 years is the lone community of its kind.

As for "guys who use them can use plenty of other setups", aren't you basically asking them to do what I am asking you to do? Use "other" setups to compete. That is double standard.

Btw, Monster defense gives you an advantage everytime you trail in the match, 90/90 strokes give you the ability to play monster defense from every corner, and monster angles the entire match, monster defense skill is not required, + they get a smell of blood bonus at every imortant point, lol!

And the only reason the top players on ps3 tour doesn't play with 98 power setups, is that they are all fair players, there is also only 1 Welch I believe, which doesn't abuse him..I have satisfying matches against Likos but sad for him there are many people who do. I wish "being good" was the key, but it isn't. I think banning Welch and restrict power to let's say 90 are realistic to realize and can help in making "being really good" the key. Conclusion is simple for me, being really good + Welch or 98 power setup = unplayable setup who can't be beaten by just "really good" players. Only an "extremely good" player like sh0Case can do that. And still he would need all of his short cross tricks for it.

Tha'ts is where you dead wrong. ITST and any competing was and is always about winning. 100+ player will go out of their way and pick a setup that will allow them to gain as many wins as possible. We do not see it with 98/98, so that argument is settled.

As for welsh, so Likos is OK, but others not? Really? Is he sooo good that he basically takes it easy and not abusing the welsh setup? ...is he deliberately aims wrong to get the worst angle? Or aims down the middle of the court to give you some time to recover and generally "be nice"?

(second bolded text)
You already names 2 tier one setups, add a few more and you have choices. Take this away and you will discover there is another tier. Ban them and that tier becomes "overpowered". Sure wont have 90 strokes, but it not 90 strokes or 80, it is the relation to the rest that matters. 90 to 70 is same as 80 to 60.


Anyway, we are going in circles. As I mentioned, you want to discuss the game - be my guest, no need to "dig" on a personal level. Stay on the game and realize that your opinion (even if supported by more then you) is still "one opinion", it is not the "right opinion by default" and my opinion is just that as well. The biggest difference is the positions we are in, the obligations we have and interests we protect.

[Likos86321]

@ ary1g

The matches we played were fun and i remembered you chasing every ball to stay in the rallies! You were fighting each point, thats why i enjoyed playing with you.

About smell of blood, i believe you confused break points when my opponent has( in this case you) and when i have them against your serve. Smell of blood only kicks in ( correct me if am wrong) when i have game point on my serve or break point on your serve!

The times you had bp on my serve, i was just playing my very best in order to save those bp and i was building up the point to punish you with control shots or powershot to the open court. I believe also that am playing better when trailing in the game because of my zero anxiety over a game



Another thing is that when we played with my neuwrith and you played with your Masaki Moriya again, i served you a bagel! Then you asked me nicely to change your player and chose a better server with better stamina as well. Your service games improved a lot but your baseline skills were toned down and couldn't touch me in my service games. You managed to hold two three times but again i won 6-3.

[Ary1g]

@ ary1g

The matches we played were fun and i remembered you chasing every ball to stay in the rallies! You were fighting each point, thats why i enjoyed playing with you.

About smell of blood, i believe you confused break points when my opponent has( in this case you) and when i have them against your serve. Smell of blood only kicks in ( correct me if am wrong) when i have game point on my serve or break point on your serve!

The times you had bp on my serve, i was just playing my very best in order to save those bp and i was building up the point to punish you with control shots or powershot to the open court. I believe also that am playing better when trailing in the game because of my zero anxiety over a game



Another thing is that when we played with my neuwrith and you played with your Masaki Moriya again, i served you a bagel! Then you asked me nicely to change your player and chose a better server with better stamina as well. Your service games improved a lot but your baseline skills were toned down and couldn't touch me in my service games. You managed to hold two three times but again i won 6-3.

First I just have to say I really enjoy playing you and talking with you. You are the most friendly player I know on ITST and I respect you very much

Yes! The matches was loads of fun! We had so many really great rallies and I felt like a was closer than ever beating you.

I need to correct you on some things though.

I never played against your Neuwirth with my Moriya.
I thought you were going to do that, but you used Welsh again in our second match. I sent you the message saying: "Neuwirth?", but you just answered that I should look him up. So I thought you just suggested me to try him. We then went on to start the match, but half way through the first set, I was too exhausted from our first match to keep my game up. Therefore I asked if I could try a different player. Planning to try a power player with big serve against your Welsh. However, this time you changed to Neuwirth and we only played the first set and the beginning of second before my game froze and I called it the night. Yes, the last matches you outplayed me, but when I played with Zamecnik against your Neuwirth, it took me the first set to get my serve really working and helping me win points on my serve more easily. However, just when I was getting in the groove, my game froze.

Looking forward playing you again soon, my friend!