topspin invasion

[venom400]

Well that's what I'm asking. You can't just say "I'm losing to this setup constantly, it needs to be changed", that makes no sense!

Agreed 100% Jay. If you want something changed and can't explain what, then no change is needed.

the thing is that TS is the most used shot in this game , and a skill the makes the best shot in TS4 better makes it OP at least in its current form .

I'm playing a character with tsI in world tour ( no not the chinese one ) and my win ratio is like 80% up from when I had a all rounder and my SV

[dsavbeast012]

Fix what exactly?

Sorry, I didn't know people here had 5th grade reading comp skills and needed stuff spelled out for them. Tone down the affect it has in the unreachable angles on certain topspin shots crosscourt, and MD needs to be toned so that it's at least possible for guys to hit UEs. I think the game overall needs more UEs and more penalty for bad timing, but MD makes the penalty even lesser for mistiming shots.

And to the smartarse who said it's only b/c I'm losing - no, I lose to plenty of people fairly and you don't see me here whining and complaining about it. Blew a match today in 1R AO online against a slice invasion/wrong foot guy where I had MP, but not complaining b/c I lost in a fair way and the player - not the gamestyle - was just better than me.

I don't know how people can say TI/MD isn't overpowered. Of course it is beatable, but it's a lot less beatable and a lot easier to win with than other gamestyles. Others have mentioned that the +15 for FH/BH should go to +10, which I would agree with, maybe even less. No pro has equally strong FH/BH, not even Nadal. So I don't know why 2K would make a gamestyle that encourages guys to be strong off both sides, but it's whatever.

And I also see ITST has outlawed it as well, which means pretty much everyone agrees its a cheeser's gamestyle that takes skill out of the game to a degree. Hitting one button for every shot =/ skill. Making every player online Nadal-like w/ topspin shots =/ fun. Please address this in a tuner set, ASAP.

[jayl0ve]

Oh cool, we're going with personal insults now...mature.

[venom400]

Fix what exactly?

Sorry, I didn't know people here had 5th grade reading comp skills and needed stuff spelled out for them. Tone down the affect it has in the unreachable angles on certain topspin shots crosscourt, and MD needs to be toned so that it's at least possible for guys to hit UEs. I think the game overall needs more UEs and more penalty for bad timing, but MD makes the penalty even lesser for mistiming shots.

And to the smartarse who said it's only b/c I'm losing - no, I lose to plenty of people fairly and you don't see me here whining and complaining about it. Blew a match today in 1R AO online against a slice invasion/wrong foot guy where I had MP, but not complaining b/c I lost in a fair way and the player - not the gamestyle - was just better than me.

I don't know how people can say TI/MD isn't overpowered. Of course it is beatable, but it's a lot less beatable and a lot easier to win with than other gamestyles. Others have mentioned that the +15 for FH/BH should go to +10, which I would agree with, maybe even less. No pro has equally strong FH/BH, not even Nadal. So I don't know why 2K would make a gamestyle that encourages guys to be strong off both sides, but it's whatever.

And I also see ITST has outlawed it as well, which means pretty much everyone agrees its a cheeser's gamestyle that takes skill out of the game to a degree. Hitting one button for every shot =/ skill. Making every player online Nadal-like w/ topspin shots =/ fun. Please address this in a tuner set, ASAP.

I agree with your points but the personal insults are uncalled for

[tigerofintegrity]

And to the smartarse who said it's only b/c I'm losing - no, I lose to plenty of people fairly

And you're not losing fairly to TI/MD? Having an advantage over you in skill and in build isn't unfair. You complain it's way too strong, others like me don't think it's that much of a problem in terms of strength. I mean, if it's unfair then it should be unfair on all of us (who don't use TI/MD) but that's not really the case.

I don't know how people can say TI/MD isn't overpowered.

It's one of the strongest builds out there, sure but not insanely overpowered at all. I think you can't see this because you haven't figured out a strategy to deal with them yet.

No pro has equally strong FH/BH, not even Nadal. So I don't know why 2K would make a gamestyle that encourages guys to be strong off both sides, but it's whatever.

I dunno. Djokovic doesn't seem to have a weak side. If he does, man his weak side is impressive! People like Murray or Ferrer don't really have a weak wing either. Don't see how not having a weaker side is unrealistic.

And I also see ITST has outlawed it as well, which means pretty much everyone agrees its a cheeser's gamestyle that takes skill out of the game to a degree.

This is statement is not true. We have not labeled it a 'cheeser's gamestyle'. The test tournament is to see whether a tour without that build can encourage more diverse builds to show up. The main problem that we've identified is that people just instantly flock to TI/MD (and not because it's obviously the strongest but because it had success and then people just followed suit without exploring other setups) so taking it out might see a large increase in diversity.

[dsavbeast012]

I agree with your points but the personal insults are uncalled for

I apologize...it's just frustrating that people try to write anyone that loses to TI/MD as a sore losers, when there are legit problems w/the coach being overpowered.

[dsavbeast012]

And you're not losing fairly to TI/MD? Having an advantage over you in skill and in build isn't unfair. You complain it's way too strong, others like me don't think it's that much of a problem in terms of strength. I mean, if it's unfair then it should be unfair on all of us (who don't use TI/MD) but that's not really the case.

I've said this earlier in the thread, and hate to repeat myself - for the average player, TI/MD is tougher to beat, almost too tough. I'm not great, just average to above average. Perhaps you're great at this game - good on you.

And FWIW I did finally try something different today against a TI/MD. S&Ved to mix it up and keep them off balance. Still lost 3-1, 4-3. Maybe I play another TI/MD and win using this tactic. That still won't change my opinion about the gamestyle being too powerful in relation to the other gamestyles.

It's one of the strongest builds out there, sure but not insanely overpowered at all. I think you can't see this because you haven't figured out a strategy to deal with them yet.

It's THE strongest build. Why else do 75% of players use it online? Not just coincidence, is it? And you're assuming I don't mix my game up at all when I do. I try to overpower them, doesn't work. Try to slice and force them into errors - doesn't work. Try to just hit deep - doesn't work. Try attacking the net, which works well actually.

But the fact remains - this gamestyle is overpowered. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see when most of the top players are using this gamestyle.

I dunno. Djokovic doesn't seem to have a weak side. If he does, man his weak side is impressive! People like Murray or Ferrer don't really have a weak wing either. Don't see how not having a weaker side is unrealistic.

The guys that you named are the exception, not the rule. I'd guess 90% of the guys on tour have one wing which is weaker. Practically every top player has a weakness you can exploit. W TI/MD, that is impossible if both wings are the same, which is the case for most of the TI/MD players.

This is statement is not true. We have not labeled it a 'cheeser's gamestyle'. The test tournament is to see whether a tour without that build can encourage more diverse builds to show up. The main problem that we've identified is that people just instantly flock to TI/MD (and not because it's obviously the strongest but because it had success and then people just followed suit without exploring other setups) so taking it out might see a large increase in diversity.

And why was everyone flocking to TI/MD? Not because it was overpowered, no, can't be that...

Look, I love this game; I'm not posting here saying I hate this game or 2K sucks or whatever. I realize my posts might seem to have a negative tone, if so I apologize. I just think this is one flaw in an otherwise great game. I know you're gonna say people are gonna just move to another gamestyle, but you have to start somewhere.

This thread was started a month ago and here we are still w/ TI/MD being overpowered. And yes it is my opinion that for the average player this is an overpowered game to play against. I know the patch is coming soon, but hopefully 2k puts a tuner out to address TI/MD and make it less powerful like they did w/ other skills.

[xMFHxMataiiBANNED]

This thread was started a month ago and here we are still w/ TI/MD being overpowered. And yes it is my opinion that for the average player this is an overpowered game to play against. I know the patch is coming soon, but hopefully 2k puts a tuner out to address TI/MD and make it less powerful like they did w/ other skills.

You admitted that you were an average + player .. other players like tiger who know what they're doing are telling you that there is a way to beat TI/MD - yet you are saying 'Oh I cant find out how so change it!'

But if we do indeed go this route.. 2K please change the power players. I dont want to come up against power hitters when I can't get angles anymore to counter them.. they are over-powered!! - once that patch is out - everyone can use S&V and it will be awesome very much like pong on easy, we can just watch the ball slowly moving up and down the screen for the S&V players to whip away.. but 2K - Just ahead of time --- its OVER POWERED -- PATCH IT!

[dsavbeast012]

This thread was started a month ago and here we are still w/ TI/MD being overpowered. And yes it is my opinion that for the average player this is an overpowered game to play against. I know the patch is coming soon, but hopefully 2k puts a tuner out to address TI/MD and make it less powerful like they did w/ other skills.

You admitted that you were an average + player .. other players like tiger who know what they're doing are telling you that there is a way to beat TI/MD - yet you are saying 'Oh I cant find out how so change it!'

But if we do indeed go this route.. 2K please change the power players. I dont want to come up against power hitters when I can't get angles anymore to counter them.. they are over-powered!! - once that patch is out - everyone can use S&V and it will be awesome very much like pong on easy, we can just watch the ball slowly moving up and down the screen for the S&V players to whip away.. but 2K - Just ahead of time --- its OVER POWERED -- PATCH IT!

Look don't talk down to me. I know what's tennis and what's not. Guys hitting topspin on every shot hitting near the line w/ no UEs is NOT TENNIS. I'm know I'm not the only one that thinks it's overpowered, but apparently I'm the most vocal one, which I have no problem with being.

And again - it's not that I'm a sore loser. You don't see me on here complaining about every other gamestyle that I lose to. It's the TI/MD players who use one button and one tactic. Serve out wide to pull you off court, then hit crosscourt topspin winner. Lather, rinse, repeat. TS is supposed to be a sim game right? Using one button isn't very sim, right?

If it's so easy to beat, why has the step been taken to rid it from ITST temporarily? Why do 75% of the players online use TI/MD now? Because if you can't beat them, join them. A lot of folks were obviously having problem w/ TI/MD, so now everyone switched to it.

BTW I love how everyone just ignores the people who've come in this thread and said that they win easier w/ TI/MD. It's like I'm the loser here, I suck b/c I can't beat TI/MD. Again, I'm not god's gift to Topspin lol. I don't expect to win every match, but I also don't expect to lose b/c of a blatantly overpowered gamestyle beating me, and not losing to a more skilled player.

And to be clear - I am not saying that TI/MD should be gotten rid of, but it should be tweaked just like the serve stick berserker and other skills were tweaked w/ the tuner set.

[xMFHxMataiiBANNED]

'Look don't talk down to me. I know what's tennis and what's not. Guys hitting topspin on every shot hitting near the line w/ no UEs is NOT TENNIS.'

Well that an exaggeration - there are unforced errors.. 2K has been tweaking it.

And again - it's not that I'm a sore loser. You don't see me on here complaining about every other gamestyle that I lose to. It's the TI/MD players who use one button and one tactic. Serve out wide to pull you off court, then hit crosscourt topspin winner. Lather, rinse, repeat. TS is supposed to be a sim game right? Using one button isn't very sim, right

-1) Thats probably because its the most common setup.. so you play them more often.. if the TI/MD need to use the serve out wide and then hit crosscourt thats fine.. I face that too sometimes and If you tried that against the best players you get abit hammered by them because they knew what was coming.. - they know how to return. I've had it done to me.

It's just a simple a case of a setup playing to their strength out wide then short crosscourt topspin.. again I have had it done to me and have learnt how to deal with it.

If it's so easy to beat, why has the step been taken to rid it from ITST temporarily? Why do 75% of the players online use TI/MD now?Because if you can't beat them, join them. A lot of folks were obviously having problem w/ TI/MD, so now everyone switched to it

Because it is a strong setup.. no one is arguing otherwise.. but what we want is to have other strong setups and not boring pong.. and my point is that its absolutely possible to beat.. the current ITST no 1 uses a different setup and again hes 1st. - So how does he beat them?

BTW I love how everyone just ignores the people who've come in this thread and said that they win easier w/ TI/MD. It's like I'm the loser here, I suck b/c I can't beat TI/MD. Again, I'm not god's gift to Topspin lol. I don't expect to win every match, but I also don't expect to lose b/c of a blatantly overpowered gamestyle beating me, and not losing to a more skilled player.

Yes its strong but why not make things like slice have a greater effect vs topspin? - I have said earlier in this thread that I wouldn't mind the angles being tweaked a little bit by lowering the + 15 to maybe + 12/13 or so.. sometimes perfectly hit shots are abit extreme even if I know how to deal with it. - But the setup requires the ability to draw your opponent out of court, if it didnt have that it would become useless.

[dsavbeast012]

Yes its strong but why not make things like slice have a greater effect vs topspin? - I have said earlier in this thread that I wouldn't mind the angles being tweaked a little bit by lowering the + 15 to maybe + 12/13 or so.. sometimes perfectly hit shots are abit extreme even if I know how to deal with it. - But the setup requires the ability to draw your opponent out of court, if it didnt have that it would become useless.

I actually think we're saying the same thing in different ways here. My gripe is that topspin is so strong while slice and flat isn't unless you have 90+ power, which I don't. Also the lack of UEs, which makes timing virtually irrelevant online - if you have bad timing and bad positioning you can still hit winners.

Again I'm not saying TI/MD needs to be erased...and it's not like I'm losing 0 and 0 to the TI/MD. It's just the combination of no UEs, impossible angles, and monster defense that makes this a overpowered (and thanks for at least conceding that it's overpowered) gamestyle. And by 'overpowered' I mean in relation to the other coaches. So either tone down TI/Md or make the other coaches more powerful, I think toning down TI/MD is the easier solution.

[SBR Ironik]

Of course the best player in the world will win even if he doesn't have TI/MD. But concidering two players, with virtually exactly the same level, the one with TI/MD will win.

It's so frustrating the way they can make veryyyyy long top spin balls or very powerfull and on the line shots when they're out of position and running for your attack... this catch me out of guard every time...

For me, the major problem is not the angles or the power when attacking BUT the way they can make a winner out of position, with no more stamina on a ball they're running for.

[Dynushi]

for me personally it is not ennoying to play against ti/md or the 100 power guys in world tour because online games are always about exploits. Whoever will use the exploit most effective will be on top of all rankings. So thats just normal.

But what really pisses me off is to meet cheesers and exploiters that are actually members of itst, either in world tour or in itst tournaments.
I just cannot understand why a fine, skillful player has to use exploits just to win all the time or do you?

Of course, ti/md is a part of the game but overusing it just destroys all the fun in the game.

I think it would be more honorful for all the itst top players to use more creative setups.

I actually played a itst tournament winner twice in wt a few minutes ago that won't do anything else than pressing the topspin button 90% of the time and did out wide slice serving 90% of the time and i think someone like that shouldnt be allowed to participate in the itst. but i know wt is not interesting here so nevermind

Thanks (now everybody hates me i guess)

[SBR Ironik]

(now everybody hates me i guess)

I don't

[venom400]

a boring game of pong ? lol

The only problem I have now that I have joined the TSI club (different couch with poisoned slices) is that people want to force you to hit the short angle and I hate that crap because is not realistic .

Most TSI/MD players will want to force you to hit short angles since they have perfect forehand and backhand getting into this kind of duel results in you (or me since I have a sorta semi sin setup) getting over powered .

There are ways to beat them if you know some basic real tennis .

Anyways having perfect forehand backhand like djoko should not be allowed unless it required you to have perfect timing on every shot , like real djoko has , basicly , if it was a human skill and not just a character you can create in two seconds then yeah I would say go for it .