TS4 Sim Rules and Exhibition thread (Hawkeye's Version)

[supinesmokey13]

in my opinion there are too many rules, too many factors to consider, i don´t want use the calculator every time i´m going to play for checking if my rival is using an allowed player.

that is why you should keep up to date with tis topic and we put together the rules so at the end you know what is allowed and what is not

[supinesmokey13]

lol, I just realized i made a mistake on the final character I posted. He would have
fh 77
bh 57
pw 72

yeah, and if you want find simple rules you have to test the players, so i repeat what i said, if ITST need help in the future with the SIM tour i could help, i haven´t said anything that is not related to this topic.
And in my opinion your idea is nice because you try to create a SIM tour, but is impossible create a tour with these rules.

Why do you think it's impossible to create a sim tour with these rules? Do you have a solution of your own? Besides created characters.

1) As I have said before (and Venom) customs, in the main, need to have a weak wing. Therefore when you have the option to add the extra 5 points some four times to the wings that is where the process begins to distribute unevenly. A weaker wing in my opinion is anything from 45-65. A stronger wing is anything from 66+. If I saw a wing in excess of say 85 I would expect the weaker wing to be on the lower end of the weak range (as above) - for example 52.

There are players in real life who have almost "equal" wings (djokovic, agassi, davydenko, etc). Not all players have weak wings. I don't believe everyone should be forced to have a weak wing. They can choose to have a strong and weak stroke, or 2 solid strokes depending on their power rating. Don't forget you also have to take what 2 skills they have into consideration. You can have a character that appears weak just by looking at the stats, but when you add something like longer!better! (which makes their angles more extreme and they start to paint the lines over time) they get better.
It's very hard to have 2 strong wings with these rules. Not only do you have to have a minimum of 50 volley, but the stroke restrictions prevent it as well.

2) However, if a player has 2 x good wings (e.g. 75-85) then this should be offset by a substantial drop in power to the region of 50-60. Anything more in my opinion will make the build too strong.

The highest combination I've found was 81fh 71bh 67pw. This is another variation of an offensive baseliner. The difference here is unlike WT the offensive baseliners don't have 80+pw with 80+strokes with a huge serve. This character would have a lot of trouble hitting through defensive baseliners.

3) Your original post on your scales are a good start, however as I said before I am just a bit concerned that members would all pick similar setups and the variety of opposition would be reduced. Furthermore I expect that most members would try and max their players to the upper ceiling limits in question - well as much as the TS4 coach distribution would allow.

There's no way to know if people would pick similar setups or not. The reason why you see similar setups in WT is because those setups are so strong. I don't know if there will be a setup with these rules that trumps the others. That's why every time someone says something about how a setup could be stronger, I ask them to post it. So we can see, discuss, and test.

4) More specifically if, in theory (and I say in theory because I am not able to run through the test in the coach calculator) a member decided yo go for this option:

*Customs with a power rating of 80 points or more
Your storkes (backhand/forehand) cannot surpass 69 points.

Are you telling me that if it is possible to create a custom that is 85 power and 69 on BOTH wings that it is SIM? Not from where I am standing.

i still think that 69 strokes + 80 power is a bit overpowered because in theory two strengths and red power that will definitely become the dominant setup so i 70-75 would be best in my opinion also has a max level for SV and DFB been established yet

I don't want to eliminate big servers, that is a playstyle after all. Some might not like it, that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. I don't like extremely fast defensive baseliners cause they get everything back, but others do.
Big servers don't get ace after ace anymore after the patch. So no one has to worry about that. They should also be able to rally, but not in line with baseliners. That's why their strokes don't surpass 69. They essentially become like s&vers. They are good at what they do best, but when it comes to baseline rallies they have some trouble.
I created a character similar to this a long time ago. Lol, I ended up testing him against djarvik's Gasquet and lost. Yeah, my serve was good. Problem is because your strokes are low, you can't angle people off like they can you, and winning rallies, although possible, is tough.
This is the same thing all serve and volleyers experience. They don't toss away rallies because they suck at rallying, it's because s&vers don't have good strokes.
Now as a big server your serve is key, and how good your 1-2 punch is will determine your success. You can't get away with 80-90 strokes, like world tour, to help pull you through anymore.
We can always test it out in an exhibition baggy/supinesmokey13(if you're on 360). That's also what this thread is for. I'll create a baseliner, and you a big server. I'll also create a baseliner with a "useless" coach as well to see how "good" the useless coaches are now. Then we post our observations .

OK maybe we could organize an exhibition for sometime this week i just need to renew my gold membership which i will do this week but anyway what should the stats be for the big server

5) In respect of power, now whilst power does that seem half as important in TS4 I still think it has the ability, in the right hands, to stifle creativity and reduce enjoyment for TRUE simmers. Like i said before let the normal tour take care of that and I believe that power should, for the benefit of the proposed tour, be reduced to an acceptably agreed level once all testing has taken place. I would expect this to be significantly under the ceiling cap of the normal tour. As before the figure I pluck out of the air is 70-75 and then plenty of points not wasted (in my opinion) on power can be distributed to overlooked stats like volley, reflexes, and speed perhaps.

Power isn't necessarily what stifles creativity. It's a combination of high power, high strokes, and big serve. Which isn't possible with these rules. Till this day, I haven't created a character with power over 70. If it were up to me no character would have a power over 70, but this has to be a compromise. Some people like having monster serves, nothing wrong with that. If anything that's part of the diversity.
The problem arises when those monster serve characters are going toe to toe with baseliners, which is made difficult with a max at 69 (atleast in theory). It's hard to have high serve and power when a cap of 70-75 is put on power. I'm not talking about a s&ver either. There will be nothing to differentiate a big server from a solid offensive baseliner. The offensive baseliner I posted, with 75fh 75bh 83srv 73pw, is very solid, but if there is a cap then what would the stats be for a big server? Would the "no strokes more than 69 apply to him"? If yes, then offensive baseliners can have good strokes, power, and serve, and a big server will have lower strokes, same power as ofbs, and a slightly better serve? Why create a big server then when offensive baseliners are better?
There should be a difference.

6) I do think that volley especially should have a minimum level, and whilst I understand from other posts in this thread that achieving a minimum of OB/DB/SV (e.g. 2 min on each) may not be visible and therefore impossible to police it is in full view of a stat being > a certain level, as well all know. Again, no blue stat for volley, 50 + in my opinion.

There is a minimum level for volley. It must be atleast 50 without any coach attribute.

8=Finally as it stands with no "assumed" patches I fully agree that TI/MD coach should be outlawed and it was only my preference, as I said on the other thread that coach skills like instant rocket or diesel server be removed for the purposes of SIM. However, if this further restricts the variety I can live with them being included.
Voila!

Baggy

Even if patches come, there's no way to tell how balanced the game will be. A sim tour can always exist beside a normal tour. It will be updated to adjust to any possible changes that are made.


Keep'em coming so we can try and find any loopholes in the rules and adjust accordingly , but most of all testing is key. Real life application is always > theory talk. That's why I'm willing to play any of you with these rules to test out multiple combinations. You can create these characters and test drive them in WT. Lol, ofcourse they won't be successful, but there might be a couple WT players with characters that fit these rules, so after you play them you can also post your observations as well. I've run into a few, and I'm sure you guys have too. Any comments on match play is better than none.

[maximo]

in my opinion there are too many rules, too many factors to consider, i don´t want use the calculator every time i´m going to play for checking if my rival is using an allowed player.

that is why you should keep up to date with tis topic and we put together the rules so at the end you know what is allowed and what is not

rules should be much easier for a tour working well.

[Crotatsuya]

Are you turning this into higher science or what?
Let there be a few restrictions such as no PJQ and no stat above 80/85 or whatever. I really appreciate your efforts, but it is kind of funny to see what this is turning into...

[supinesmokey13]

Are you turning this into higher science or what?
Let there be a few restrictions such as no PJQ and no stat above 80/85 or whatever. I really appreciate your efforts, but it is kind of funny to see what this is turning into...

but just banning PJQ and restricting stats to not above 80/85 will not be sim e.g i have a player 70 fh and bh serve 70, power 80 vs say fh bh 69, serve 70, power 60 with 68, volley, 68-70 speed and reflex the firs setup in good hand will win 8/ 10 as there no areas to attack thats why we want to get this right for everyone at a go if possible so we are doing this to create a solid base of rules for the tour so when the tour is finally put together and small updates or changes will be needed we are not turning this into a science we are just trying to cover all bases and look at possible problems that could arise from having certain bulids, and having tested the rules and setup you suggested we would end up with a dilluted version of the tour we have now which isnt we want, so as such through testing and analyzing of setups is needed to mke the best sim tour possible

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

Are you turning this into higher science or what?
Let there be a few restrictions such as no PJQ and no stat above 80/85 or whatever. I really appreciate your efforts, but it is kind of funny to see what this is turning into...

but just banning PJQ and restricting stats to not above 80/85 will not be sim e.g i have a player 70 fh and bh serve 70, power 80 vs say fh bh 69, serve 70, power 60 with 68, volley, 68-70 speed and reflex the firs setup in good hand will win 8/ 10 as there no areas to attack thats why we want to get this right for everyone at a go if possible so we are doing this to create a solid base of rules for the tour so when the tour is finally put together and small updates or changes will be needed we are not turning this into a science we are just trying to cover all bases and look at possible problems that could arise from having certain bulids, and having tested the rules and setup you suggested we would end up with a dilluted version of the tour we have now which isnt we want, so as such through testing and analyzing of setups is needed to mke the best sim tour possible

@ Crotatsuya

Yes I agree with supinesmokey13 in that making a SIM tour that simple will not offer what most SIM players would be looking for.

In my opinion one has to live a true SIM tour - like the custom built roster in TS3 to know what is required and the benefits and enjoyment it brings when executed properly.

Now I understand, like you said, that it is getting kind if "funny" how this thread is turning out, I kinda agree too but I like it because I enjoy channelling my thoughts and hearing others people's discussions on something that is going to be for the better of ITST and for the game itself.

All of the discussions and trials as talked about in this thread would of been exactly the same with Anil, Djarvik & Rob ITST (ITST Management) in preparing and developed the TS3 SIM tour - it just so happens a select few lovers of SIM are talking about it in the open rather than behind closed doors.

ITST might not even decide to go down the route of SIM, and whilst I would be gutted if they didn't I would rather focus 90% of my efforts when posting on the forum into this thread than any other because the potential benefits are there!

@ Hawkeye

Man we must open up our own private chat forum where we can discuss this because my fingers are getting tired Seriously though I thought I could chat for Britain and post long replies but you my friend take the biscuit You have well and truly knocked me off the top spot in that department, but I still do not agree with all that you have come back with - although we are getting closer I think...

Again, I need more time to respond to your beast of a reply on my reply

Baggy

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I'd just had the 3 players as an example to think about have letting in people with more then 14 in DFB/OFB

But then they have fill up with S&V and not with OFB or DFB when they have DFB or OFB at the moment and having the maximal stat for DFB or OFB, tied up with the coach you use so you can't have a level15 coach with 18 in OFB as it should have to be at 15OFB/5S&V

I know what you mean. Unfortunately it has to be a rule that can be verified by sight alone. That's why I tossed out the 14 ofb/dfb cap cause you can't see that. The cap was to eliminate the coaches on the extreme ends of offense and defense. Surprisingly, the 50 volley minimum, and stroke rules, with the addition of jon samala to the banned list, eliminates some coaches that could be troublesome.

I just thought about having it just for OFB players as I think with OFB they have a lot of stamina and speed that doesn't count that much
With S&V they wouldn't gain that much stamina as they would with higher OFB, but I think even DFB players should fill up with S&V

My idea behind this is having a bit more diversity with these rules while having a fair tour with diffrent players, no obvious "too strong" player

The main problem with the WT offensive baseliners is not just the fact that they are a bit too fast with their 47 speed. It's the fact that because they are a bit too fast with their 47 speed, they have another chance to hit a winner off their 90fh 90pw stroke with diesel hard hitter, which has reached it's maximum precision cap for their powerful shots. This is because of the coach David Gallo. Thing is he gives too many points to a big server, stroke wise. So, without stating it, he's banned cause you can't create a character that fits the rules with him.

So my rule suggestion would be:
- The best stat over 14 should be just to the point to gain a coach with maximum in 18 (example: Ivan Zajic, 15 in OFB is required, so if you use this coach, the maximum in OFB has to be 15 and the rest have to be filled up with S&V)

Maybe I would even make this as a primary rule without having at the moment looked at every coach to ban or to figure out new rules

Even if I would put up my rule with your strokes/power rule (and would left out the others, while I would still ban PJQ), there is enough room for your rules to work as an example:

18OFB/2S&V Alba Loureiro
FH/BH 78 to fit with your strokes rule
Serve 85
Volley 48
Power 77
Stamina 71
Speed 48
Reflexes 65

But for David Gallo (17OFB/3S&V) it wouldn't work out with the Strokes (the strokes close to the strokes rule 5 in FH and 15 in BH)
FH 72
BH 73
Serve 90
Volley 51
Power 89
Stamina 72
Speed 45
Reflexes 58

The first character wouldn't fit cause they need atleast a 50 in volley without any coach bonus.
Lol, your second character was just what I talked about regarding the same coach, David Gallo. Some coaches, without stating it, are banned because they give too much, or would make your pw and strokes too high.

If there is a SIM Tour and I have XBL Gold, I would create a new character that would fit the "SIM" requirements, but I would like to play more with my player I played many games with than creating new players as I think my character isn't overpowered with 74FH and 84 in Power as I just get crushed by players that are faster, a bit better in stamina and having way better strokes then mine (both red) and even that would be some kind of "SIM" in my opinion

This is an unfortunate requirement that some will have to face. People will have to create new or modify existing characters to fit a sim tour.

in my opinion there are too many rules, too many factors to consider, i don´t want use the calculator every time i´m going to play for checking if my rival is using an allowed player.

Are you turning this into higher science or what?
Let there be a few restrictions such as no PJQ and no stat above 80/85 or whatever. I really appreciate your efforts, but it is kind of funny to see what this is turning into...

supinesmokey13 and baghdad said it best.
You can post what rules you want and we all can discuss. If you have a smaller rules list that works then plz post it.
I tossed away the idea of a "1 line sim tour rule" a long time ago. It just didn't seem possible. You have to go a bit further. Not too far to where it can't be verified by sight alone, but at the same time not so simple that it is easily exploitable and doesn't create diversity.

Now that I'm attempting this, I see why the mods resorted to a character created list for TS3. Even if you were to use the strokes rules in this thread for TS3, you'd have to put some more rules on top of that because of how the leveling up system works in TS3. People would need a checklist everytime they want to play a sim match. A created list was the only way to go. They could have gone with a non created list, but it would have been way too many things to look for. Fortunately TS4 takes away that "put points into what you want" system, so it's easier to control than TS3.

I don't mean to attack, but if you feel the rules are too much then plz post a lesser one that prevents monsters, and promotes diversity. Simply banning PJQ and putting a max on pw would not do it. Djarvik made a very nice post yesterday

Saying "lets try" its easy, what is hard is actually coming up with something worth trying and making it work.

I don't mind if you disagree because that's the easy part. Posting an alternative that works is what we're looking for the most.

@ Hawkeye

Man we must open up our own private chat forum where we can discuss this because my fingers are getting tired Seriously though I thought I could chat for Britain and post long replies but you my friend take the biscuit You have well and truly knocked me off the top spot in that department, but I still do not agree with all that you have come back with - although we are getting closer I think...

Again, I need more time to respond to your beast of a reply on my reply

Baggy

hahaha, sorry about the fingers. I'm guessing the 70-75pw stuff you're talking about is still on your mind. Here are 2 characters

9/10/1
fh 75
bh 55
srv 83
vol 59
pw 78
sta 61
spe 59
rf 73
Semi volley king, shot counter

10/10/0
fh 52
bh 75
srv 92
vol 63
pw 76
sta 58
spe 53
rf 66
Brutal volley, diesel hard hitter

Would you consider them un-sim like? A power cap at 75 would mean they are banned btw.

[supinesmokey13]

I'd just had the 3 players as an example to think about have letting in people with more then 14 in DFB/OFB

But then they have fill up with S&V and not with OFB or DFB when they have DFB or OFB at the moment and having the maximal stat for DFB or OFB, tied up with the coach you use so you can't have a level15 coach with 18 in OFB as it should have to be at 15OFB/5S&V

I know what you mean. Unfortunately it has to be a rule that can be verified by sight alone. That's why I tossed out the 14 ofb/dfb cap cause you can't see that. The cap was to eliminate the coaches on the extreme ends of offense and defense. Surprisingly, the 50 volley minimum, and stroke rules, with the addition of jon samala to the banned list, eliminates some coaches that could be troublesome.

I just thought about having it just for OFB players as I think with OFB they have a lot of stamina and speed that doesn't count that much
With S&V they wouldn't gain that much stamina as they would with higher OFB, but I think even DFB players should fill up with S&V

My idea behind this is having a bit more diversity with these rules while having a fair tour with diffrent players, no obvious "too strong" player

The main problem with the WT offensive baseliners is not just the fact that they are a bit too fast with their 47 speed. It's the fact that because they are a bit too fast with their 47 speed, they have another chance to hit a winner off their 90fh 90pw stroke with diesel hard hitter, which has reached it's maximum precision cap for their powerful shots. This is because of the coach David Gallo. Thing is he gives too many points to a big server, stroke wise. So, without stating it, he's banned cause you can't create a character that fits the rules with him.

So my rule suggestion would be:
- The best stat over 14 should be just to the point to gain a coach with maximum in 18 (example: Ivan Zajic, 15 in OFB is required, so if you use this coach, the maximum in OFB has to be 15 and the rest have to be filled up with S&V)

Maybe I would even make this as a primary rule without having at the moment looked at every coach to ban or to figure out new rules

Even if I would put up my rule with your strokes/power rule (and would left out the others, while I would still ban PJQ), there is enough room for your rules to work as an example:

18OFB/2S&V Alba Loureiro
FH/BH 78 to fit with your strokes rule
Serve 85
Volley 48
Power 77
Stamina 71
Speed 48
Reflexes 65

But for David Gallo (17OFB/3S&V) it wouldn't work out with the Strokes (the strokes close to the strokes rule 5 in FH and 15 in BH)
FH 72
BH 73
Serve 90
Volley 51
Power 89
Stamina 72
Speed 45
Reflexes 58

The first character wouldn't fit cause they need atleast a 50 in volley without any coach bonus.
Lol, your second character was just what I talked about regarding the same coach, David Gallo. Some coaches, without stating it, are banned because they give too much, or would make your pw and strokes too high.

If there is a SIM Tour and I have XBL Gold, I would create a new character that would fit the "SIM" requirements, but I would like to play more with my player I played many games with than creating new players as I think my character isn't overpowered with 74FH and 84 in Power as I just get crushed by players that are faster, a bit better in stamina and having way better strokes then mine (both red) and even that would be some kind of "SIM" in my opinion

This is an unfortunate requirement that some will have to face. People will have to create new or modify existing characters to fit a sim tour.

in my opinion there are too many rules, too many factors to consider, i don´t want use the calculator every time i´m going to play for checking if my rival is using an allowed player.

Are you turning this into higher science or what?
Let there be a few restrictions such as no PJQ and no stat above 80/85 or whatever. I really appreciate your efforts, but it is kind of funny to see what this is turning into...

supinesmokey13 and baghdad said it best.
You can post what rules you want and we all can discuss. If you have a smaller rules list that works then plz post it.
I tossed away the idea of a "1 line sim tour rule" a long time ago. It just didn't seem possible. You have to go a bit further. Not too far to where it can't be verified by sight alone, but at the same time not so simple that it is easily exploitable and doesn't create diversity.

Now that I'm attempting this, I see why the mods resorted to a character created list for TS3. Even if you were to use the strokes rules in this thread for TS3, you'd have to put some more rules on top of that because of how the leveling up system works in TS3. People would need a checklist everytime they want to play a sim match. A created list was the only way to go. They could have gone with a non created list, but it would have been way too many things to look for. Fortunately TS4 takes away that "put points into what you want" system, so it's easier to control than TS3.

I don't mean to attack, but if you feel the rules are too much then plz post a lesser one that prevents monsters, and promotes diversity. Simply banning PJQ and putting a max on pw would not do it. Djarvik made a very nice post yesterday

Saying "lets try" its easy, what is hard is actually coming up with something worth trying and making it work.

I don't mind if you disagree because that's the easy part. Posting an alternative that works is what we're looking for the most.

@ Hawkeye

Man we must open up our own private chat forum where we can discuss this because my fingers are getting tired Seriously though I thought I could chat for Britain and post long replies but you my friend take the biscuit You have well and truly knocked me off the top spot in that department, but I still do not agree with all that you have come back with - although we are getting closer I think...

Again, I need more time to respond to your beast of a reply on my reply

Baggy

hahaha, sorry about the fingers. I'm guessing the 70-75pw stuff you're talking about is still on your mind. Here are 2 characters

9/10/1
fh 75
bh 55
srv 83
vol 59
pw 78
sta 61
spe 59
rf 73
Semi volley king, shot counter

10/10/0
fh 52
bh 75
srv 92
vol 63
pw 76
sta 58
spe 53
rf 66
Brutal volley, diesel hard hitter

Would you consider them un-sim like? A power cap at 75 would mean they are banned btw.

yes they are un-sim like they have big serves on top of orange power 92 on serve is too high especially when combined with the power if you lower the serve stats you might have something as it stands they should be banned if we were to follow the proposed setup

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

yes they are un-sim like they have big serves on top of orange power 92 on serve is too high especially when combined with the power if you lower the serve stats you might have something as it stands they should be banned if we were to follow the proposed setup

Lower the serve stat? So i can get something like this
fh 75
bh 75
srv 83
vol 58
pw 73
sta 61
spe 64
rf 61

This is the stat of the extreme offensive baseliner that I posted earlier. Tell me (the first 2 questions apply to baghdad as well)

(1) With a cap at 75, what will be the difference between an offensive baseliner, the stat above, and a big server? Plz post 4 stats, 2 big servers/2 offensive basliners, for me using the coach calculator with a cap of 75pw.

(2) Why would anyone create a "big server" over an offensive baseliner? It's obviously not for his power, or serve since his serve and power will be too close to that of the offensive basliner to make a difference. The offensive basliners would also be faster, with better strokes. That's 4 things against a big server. If there are no positive differences or incentives to big serve, then I see no difference from "Power cap at 75" and "Big serving is banned".

(3) Also, why did you say 92 on serve is too high? I thought you were only talking about power and wanted to cap it at 75? So you want a serve restriction too?

More rules upon more rules just keep getting added.

We can always test it out btw, if you think those 2 characters are un-sim like, then create them and I'll create a baseliner. We play and post comments.

[supinesmokey13]

yes they are un-sim like they have big serves on top of orange power 92 on serve is too high especially when combined with the power if you lower the serve stats you might have something as it stands they should be banned if we were to follow the proposed setup

Lower the serve stat? So i can get something like this
fh 75
bh 75
srv 83
vol 58
pw 73
sta 61
spe 64
rf 61

This is the stat of the extreme offensive baseliner that I posted earlier. Tell me (the first 2 questions apply to baghdad as well)

(1) With a cap at 75, what will be the difference between an offensive baseliner, the stat above, and a big server? Plz post 4 stats, 2 big servers/2 offensive basliners, for me using the coach calculator with a cap of 75pw.

(2) Why would anyone create a "big server" over an offensive baseliner? It's obviously not for his power, or serve since his serve and power will be too close to that of the offensive basliner to make a difference. The offensive basliners would also be faster, with better strokes. That's 4 things against a big server. If there are no positive differences or incentives to big serve, then I see no difference from "Power cap at 75" and "Big serving is banned".

(3) Also, why did you say 92 on serve is too high? I thought you were only talking about power and wanted to cap it at 75? So you want a serve restriction too?

More rules upon more rules just keep getting added.

We can always test it out btw, if you think those 2 characters are un-sim like, then create them and I'll create a baseliner. We play and post comments.

you knw what your right 92 is not to high having further examined that setup 92 seems fine i think i jumped the gun a little bit i got up in the 92 stat and looking at emerying else it works well for a big server and are you gonna enter test tournament

[supinesmokey13]

yes they are un-sim like they have big serves on top of orange power 92 on serve is too high especially when combined with the power if you lower the serve stats you might have something as it stands they should be banned if we were to follow the proposed setup

Lower the serve stat? So i can get something like this
fh 75
bh 75
srv 83
vol 58
pw 73
sta 61
spe 64
rf 61

This is the stat of the extreme offensive baseliner that I posted earlier. Tell me (the first 2 questions apply to baghdad as well)

(1) With a cap at 75, what will be the difference between an offensive baseliner, the stat above, and a big server? Plz post 4 stats, 2 big servers/2 offensive basliners, for me using the coach calculator with a cap of 75pw.

(2) Why would anyone create a "big server" over an offensive baseliner? It's obviously not for his power, or serve since his serve and power will be too close to that of the offensive basliner to make a difference. The offensive basliners would also be faster, with better strokes. That's 4 things against a big server. If there are no positive differences or incentives to big serve, then I see no difference from "Power cap at 75" and "Big serving is banned".

(3) Also, why did you say 92 on serve is too high? I thought you were only talking about power and wanted to cap it at 75? So you want a serve restriction too?

More rules upon more rules just keep getting added.

We can always test it out btw, if you think those 2 characters are un-sim like, then create them and I'll create a baseliner. We play and post comments.

you knw what your right 92 is not to high having further examined that setup 92 seems fine i think i jumped the gun a little bit i got up in the 92 stat and looking at emerying else it works well for a big server and are you gonna enter test tournament

I also think when we are done setting up rules and can get a sim tour up and running we should start a topic detailing what can be improved for top spin 5

[tigerofintegrity]

Yeah honestly, I don't think big serves are a huge problem for the SIM tour now after the serve patch. They're definitely manageable and even the best servers rarely get more than a single ace per game now, usually less. I mean, lots of pros irl do better than that.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Btw I made 1 small mistake. It's gonna have to be "50 minimum volley" only. Lol, I just realized you can't see coach bonuses in the player match screen. Luckily there are only 4 coaches that give volley bonuses without requiring a mininum of 3s&v. If you try and create a character using one of the 4 coaches so that you have a minimum of 50 volley, you're character could look something like this:

Makayla Brown 2s&v 12ofb 6dfb
fh 82
bh 57
srv 84
vol 50
pw 68
sta 73
spe 70
rf 56
Spin serve master, approach shots expert

Luka skippertrov 18ofb 2dfb
fh 78
bh 58
srv 93
vol 55
pw 77
sta 73
spe 57
rf 59
Spin serve master, approach shots expert

Andres Quiroga 1s&v 7ofb 12dfb
fh 75
bh 64
srv 64
vol 52
pw 68
sta 77
spe 78
rf 63
Diesel returner, amazing first volley

Mathew Grody 10ofb 10dfb
fh 78
bh 68
srv 62
vol 51
pw 79
sta 79
spe 66
rf 57
Diesel Hard hitter, volley shots artist

Good thing they don't go overboard. The other coaches that give volley bonuses go more into the s&v territory.
I guess everything is done for now. Unless anyone still wants to discuss...

[Tuurbine]

Top Spin 5 will be out before we make up our minds on this one