People want Top Spin 5

[tigerofintegrity]

So basically people want to redo serves, return of serves, top spin shots, slice shots, unforced errors, power, speed, stamina, reflexes, forehand and backhand, movement, shots when out of position, timing of shots as well as redefine skills, redistribute bonus attributes to balance every single coach, change skill combinations of coaches... oh wait you also all want stuttering bug fixed, serving/returning out wide, lag issues, direct and WT matching bug fixed... wow. 2K, I hope you're listening cos you're in for a shitload of work! Basically what people want is Top Spin 5.

Honestly, I think it's a little bit ridiculous. You can't seriously expect them to overhaul the entire game including basic mechanics and just about everything else. I think we're going to have to be a little bit realistic here and not ask for everything. Get some of the more important things sorted out and then work with what we're left with. If you want more realism, then just fall back to the SIM tour instead and don't participate in the normal tour. That's way more efficient than trying to get 2K to change the entire game.

I mean, things like you wanting to redefine MD. I just totally don't agree with that at all. You want it to only work for one point and also reduce it's efficiency? For a start, I don't feel it even needs reworking right now. Does not feel overpowered at all and seems just fine to me. What you're suggesting will just kill the skill. Not worth having if it just triggers for one point when you're trailing and just reduces your chance of making an error. Then I'd rather take almost any other skill that activates all the time instead.

Also, I think what people seem to hate the most is the ability to hit good angles in this game. It doesn't matter if you take away that coach, if you time your shots perfectly, you can still hit crazy angles in this game. It won't be as sharp but it will still be too acute for your liking. That's just part of the game mechanics. I think people will be disappointed when they realise these changes still wouldn't make the game their 'ideal game'. The game wasn't designed like that so no amount of small tweaking will ever get it like that.

That's not to say I'm not opposed to small changes in the game. The TI/MD is a little bit above the rest because of the bonus attribute and two complimentary skills. But things like toning down slice, I don't feel they are necessary. None of the shots are really overpowered when matched up to each other.

On top of that, I personally don't mind what happens to the game. I'm not opposed to change at all, I just don't feel a huge amount of it is necessary. I'm not defending the way it is cos I feel like it's too game changing. Pretty sure I, and most good players here, can easily adapt if the game were to change. The game is far more about being able to time your shots well, being in good position, anticipating your opponent etc. and that's why the top players will still be the top players at the end of the day regardless of these proposed changes.

[Crotatsuya]

Thats exactly what I said. Some of the other coaches will still be better than others, but you get a wider set of options to choose from and even if you take some other coach or setup that you like, you will most likely not be without a chance.

There is no reason to complain about your mentioned coaches (I could mention some more where that might actually happen), since each of them has a downside, may it be lack of power or lack of fh/ bh.
I could show you in detail but I gues you know what I mean.

At the moment there is 1 dominat setup that is clearly better than the others if played right. Balance this out and you have many different strong setups that can beat each other. Granted, some are slightly better than others, but none of them is perfect and can be beaten by a good player.

I guess our opinions differ there, but you cannot have a game where everything is balanced 1:1. See, in Beat em Ups like Street Fighter for exampe you have Tier 1,2,3,4 etc characters, Tier 1 obviously the best.
Still, lower Tier chars are able to beat them if played right, its just harder and requires strategy and skill. Same goes with this game.

Only PJQ stands out as God Tier in this case, which is not how it should be. I'd claim, that every other setup is beatable if you know what you have to do, since all of them have a downside.

And, if PJQ is actually nerfed, I'm pretty sure many people will switch to a power setup, which will be the next thing to complain about.

[Crotatsuya]

So basically people want to redo serves, return of serves, top spin shots, slice shots, unforced errors, power, speed, stamina, reflexes, forehand and backhand, movement, shots when out of position, timing of shots as well as redefine skills, redistribute bonus attributes to balance every single coach, change skill combinations of coaches... oh wait you also all want stuttering bug fixed, serving/returning out wide, lag issues, direct and WT matching bug fixed... wow. 2K, I hope you're listening cos you're in for a shitload of work! Basically what people want is Top Spin 5.

Honestly, I think it's a little bit ridiculous. You can't seriously expect them to overhaul the entire game including basic mechanics and just about everything else. I think we're going to have to be a little bit realistic here and not ask for everything. Get some of the more important things sorted out and then work with what we're left with. If you want more realism, then just fall back to the SIM tour instead and don't participate in the normal tour. That's way more efficient than trying to get 2K to change the entire game.

I mean, things like you wanting to redefine MD. I just totally don't agree with that at all. You want it to only work for one point and also reduce it's efficiency? For a start, I don't feel it even needs reworking right now. Does not feel overpowered at all and seems just fine to me. What you're suggesting will just kill the skill. Not worth having if it just triggers for one point when you're trailing and just reduces your chance of making an error. Then I'd rather take almost any other skill that activates all the time instead.

Also, I think what people seem to hate the most is the ability to hit good angles in this game. It doesn't matter if you take away that coach, if you time your shots perfectly, you can still hit crazy angles in this game. It won't be as sharp but it will still be too acute for your liking. That's just part of the game mechanics. I think people will be disappointed when they realise these changes still wouldn't make the game their 'ideal game'. The game wasn't designed like that so no amount of small tweaking will ever get it like that.

That's not to say I'm not opposed to small changes in the game. The TI/MD is a little bit above the rest because of the bonus attribute and two complimentary skills. But things like toning down slice, I don't feel they are necessary. None of the shots are really overpowered when matched up to each other.

On top of that, I personally don't mind what happens to the game. I'm not opposed to change at all, I just don't feel a huge amount of it is necessary. I'm not defending the way it is cos I feel like it's too game changing. Pretty sure I, and most good players here, can easily adapt if the game were to change. The game is far more about being able to time your shots well, being in good position, anticipating your opponent etc. and that's why the top players will still be the top players at the end of the day regardless of these proposed changes.

I completely and entirely agree with that. Would have said it so myself, but my english is too rusty at the moment.^^

[tigerofintegrity]

Exactly. I mean, I don't even get what you're aiming towards. You want it so that all of the dozens of gold coaches out there are essentially equal so two people of similar skill should always have a 50:50 chance against each other no matter what coach they use?

[djarvik]

Sorry to have split the topic, but if you don't think any coaches need to be touched, then post nothing.

Otherwise feel free to discuss it further in this thread.

[Crotatsuya]

Actually I said that there is 1 coach that needs adjustment, and provided some valid arguments why the others should not. If you won't accept other peoples opinions or are open for discussions, I might as well stop posting.

[djarvik]

Actually I said that there is 1 coach that needs adjustment, and provided some valid arguments why the others should not. If you won't accept other peoples opinions or are open for discussions, I might as well stop posting.

I had to split the thread. There was no way for me to selectively move posts.

Thanks for the accusations - appreciate it!

[Coolhand Texas]

Actually I said that there is 1 coach that needs adjustment, and provided some valid arguments why the others should not. If you won't accept other peoples opinions or are open for discussions, I might as well stop posting.

you will find this is an absurd claim. djarvik is a very open minded person

[Crotatsuya]

Sorry for that, but it sounded like you wanted to say I didn't have a valid point and therefore cut it out of the topic.

[djarvik]

Honestly, I am trying to keep the forum organized we agreed we gonna try and do it, so I am trying to. I am up for derailing any thread thou!


On Topic: I agree with tigerofintegrity. People complaint too much and about everything. I don't think the game requires MAJOR overhaul. A few bugs and some balancing issues.

Bugs - well, we know about them.

Balancing - there is no perfect balance. Part of the fun, is actually discussing and trying to achieve it. Maybe just as fun as playing the game for some. For me for example. I create players every day and almost never use the same player in two ITST tournaments. This is fun for me.

I also agree that there are lot of fundamental stuff in the game that wont change, no matter how many people bitch about it.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

2k will have the ultimate say in what will be fixed. The reason why product makers ask customers to make a "What you would like addressed list", is to see what is fixable, and what isn't. They take into consideration that they will have to bring out extra money from their pockets to address those problems. Sometimes those fixes won't come until the next game, people asked for coaches and got them in TS4.

Each consumer is different. I don't agree with what you, and many others, say about how this and this is fine. That doesn't mean you are wrong or that I'm right. It just means we have different opinions.

If you go to complaint threads for games like halo/gears of war/mmorpgs/etc, Apple products (ipod/ipad), microsoft programs (windows), etc you'll see people writing books and books of complaints. People don't believe their every word will be addressed. They are just giving the developers as many things as possible they would like attention brought to or things they would like implemented. I assure you if TS4 were more popular this place will be filled with more "complaint" after "complaint".

I personally don't like the word "complaint" being associated with a consumer's "Things I would like" list. It has a negative connotation to it, and comes off as somewhat of a "bad" thing, when it really isn't. Some might see this thread as a "complaint" against the "complainers". I personally don't see it as that. My "complaints" are my opinions on tweaks I would like to see, just like how the above posts are your opinions.

People seem to be confusing people wanting attention brought to certain areas as "OMG TS4 is so bad they might as well just release TS5 right now". I never once believed 2k will do anything, even if it were a small change. I'm still skeptical that any patch will be released at all. Whether people believe certain changes are feasible or not doesn't matter cause in the end 2k will be the judge of that. That is up to them to decide. All we can do is give them a list of what we would individually like. 2k will take care of the rest as they know what is possible and what isn't. They might not do a single thing, or they might only do a few. Who knows?

If anyone doesn't like what I, or others, are saying that's fine. Just sit back and be amused by our "complaints". I'm not afraid to toss out as many ideas as possible regardless of how radical they might seem. Whether anything happens in the end will be up to 2k, not us. Regardless of how loud we cry, and moan. This rule applies to all "complaint" threads.

I don't mind talking about what I've posted, or disagreeing with people in general, but your post comes off in an attacking "are you listening to what you are saying" kinda fashion. Lets refrain from attacking, passive or not, others opinions or ways of doing things. Djarvik has disagreed with me multiple times, but he doesn't attack.

[tigerofintegrity]

Actually, my post isn't meant to attack anyone, just to point out in one go how many things everyone together on the board want changed and how overwhelming of that together combined is. If it came off a little stronghanded, that wasn't meant as a form of aggression and if you took personal offense to that, I apologise. It's definitely not a personal attack on you. In fact, I find you a very reasonable person and I don't think you complain much tbh. I like how your posts are calm, controlled and constructive. I'm a fan of yours really.

And you're right. Of course we can't expect 2K to listen and fix every single issue everyone here has with the game. They'll only address the most pressing issues. I just kinda think we're gonna bombard them with way too much stuff and they're gonna get confused about which problems they should address. Then again, they seem to have tweaked the serving issue really well so maybe I need to give them more credit about knowing what they're doing.

I just think you all want SIM and that's fine. I like realistic tennis too and I'm interested in the idea of SIM too. I just think SIM would itself solve a lot of issues people are raising that don't really need 2K to change then. Double solving a problem seems a bit like a waste of time and effort to me. For example, I don't think MD needs to be changed. There are better ways to tone down that coach, namely the bonus attributes. Then in the normal tour, it will be comparable to the other strong coaches and for SIM, you can just ban her if the TI/MD combo is too strong for that.

[JJ_DUBZ_87]

Actually, my post isn't meant to attack anyone, just to point out in one go how many things everyone together on the board want changed and how overwhelming of that together combined is. If it came off a little stronghanded, that wasn't meant as a form of aggression and if you took personal offense to that, I apologise. It's definitely not a personal attack on you. In fact, I find you a very reasonable person and I don't think you complain much tbh. I like how your posts are calm, controlled and constructive. I'm a fan of yours really.

And you're right. Of course we can't expect 2K to listen and fix every single issue everyone here has with the game. They'll only address the most pressing issues. I just kinda think we're gonna bombard them with way too much stuff and they're gonna get confused about which problems they should address. Then again, they seem to have tweaked the serving issue really well so maybe I need to give them more credit about knowing what they're doing.

I just think you all want SIM and that's fine. I like realistic tennis too and I'm interested in the idea of SIM too. I just think SIM would itself solve a lot of issues people are raising that don't really need 2K to change then. Double solving a problem seems a bit like a waste of time and effort to me. For example, I don't think MD needs to be changed. There are better ways to tone down that coach, namely the bonus attributes. Then in the normal tour, it will be comparable to the other strong coaches and for SIM, you can just ban her if the TI/MD combo is too strong for that.

I don't think 2K is going to be bombarded with information. From what I understand, we suggest things and the administrative team at ITST sifts through that and delivers a more organized synopsis of what we suggest. The complaints all seem to be coming from this one coach, and this one combination of skills.

I feel your suggestion to alter her bonus attributes and leave the skills as is is a great idea and easy for 2K to change...I haven't checked in the thread I started yet but if it's not in there maybe it should be (I think someone else might have hit on that already though).

I know it seems chaotic right now but rest assured the thunderstorm of complaints and rants and threads ultimately talking about the same thing are being looked at and good sound suggestions are being made to 2K.

[AVFC_93]

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SERVES THEY ARE PERFECT! AND BECUASE OF COMPLETE IDIOTS ON HERE THEY ARE GONNA CHANGE THE SERVES AND MAKE IT HARDER!!!

[jayl0ve]

OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOO