Put TS4 in now!!!!

[ItaStallion]

yes i'm saying you can still power hit your 2nd if you want to just make it harder to hit the lines.....

if it was so easy to get your 2nd serve in with alot of power in good position wouldn't every pro player just serve 1st serves as their 2nd ???? knowing they would get 90% of the 2 chances of getting it...

I will even give you examples of why there is more pressure on your 2nd serve... its 30-30 your on serve it is currently 6/5 to your opponent in the set are you going to risk your 2nd serve and give them a set point??? Hell no there is alot of pressure on you...

another example its 30-40 its break point are you going to risk your 2nd serve? and let him get a free break on you hell no and there is a huge amount of pressure on you.... you know you need to win the point to stay in the game

[djarvik]

I play tennis for about 20 years now. Play and coach. Venom us 100% correct.

no offence but if you think he is correct your not a very good coach in my opinion...

but that is all this is an opinion i have one side of the story you have another.... does it make either of us right?

nope just a disagreement on who's opinion is more justified is all

Serve skill is a constant. Second serves being served by players at slower speeds and with more margin because they just missed the first. This doesn't hamper their ability of servig hard.
What is the average 1st serve percentage in ATP? How about TS4?



BTW - no need to get worked up just because I threw a number that is bigger then yours. If you mean "no offense" - then don't offend. Simple.

[Rob ITST]

The only things that make the second serve harder are mental - mostly, the risk of double faulting.

That doesn't change in a video game, as long as serving has enough difficulty.

[djarvik]

But the only things that make the second serve harder are mental - mostly, the risk of double faulting.

That doesn't change in a video game, as long as serving has enough difficulty.

Thanks Rob.

[ItaStallion]

I was just saying i know alot of coaches i regularly play tennis socially with friends and such and even know the owner/coach of my local tennis club...

He employs 12 coaches at his tennis court centre alone.... he owns operates and teaches tennis he knows everything there is to know about the game... He even had a hit with Bernard Tomic before he went to his Grand Slam he has a picture with him and everything and told me he is the future of Australian tennis right now.

But again this is a difference of opinion there is no telling who is right and who is wrong it is solely put on the individual.



Thanks Rob yes that's what i meant mentally you have alot of pressure so it's not wise to go for a Big 2nd Serve especially since you just missed one as well..

[djarvik]

Got your club owner beat here too

Anyway, back on topic.

[venom400]

The pressure should come from the players brain , not artifitially from a video game .

I play 4.5 and in open tournements and rib and djor are professional couches no offense but you owe this guys more respect

The first and second shold be the same because the presure should come from the hance of an error on an important point , not fom the game artificially making it harder .

The first serve percent is about 70% to 50% second is actually higher because most players chose to second serve slow because the chance of doule faulting is higher than one of a free point and we usually chose to start the point anf try to win it on the ground instead of gifting a free point

[dragonspirit1976]

another example its 30-40 its break point are you going to risk your 2nd serve? and let him get a free break on you hell no and there is a huge amount of pressure on you.... you know you need to win the point to stay in the game

Honestely, it's the beauty of the game. No player is the same. You say hell no, I say, yes...I would...why? They would never expect me to, and that can create a huge advantage in the rally that follows.

There's a difference by the way between risking it all, or take a calculated risk. If I hit a second serve hard, but I don't go for the ultimate edge of the box, I am taking a risk, but a calculated one.

Yes, that does put pressure on me, but it also does on my opponent because I never do the same. If you hit a lame ass second serve, you are taking a risk as well..sure, the player needs to make the point, but you are giving him all chances to do so.

[JJ_DUBZ_87]

The difference between irl and the simulation of the game is irl, you directly feel the pressure, because you're doing everything...the serve motion, the toss, the takeback, the swing and follow through. If one of those things are off, then your second serve delivery is either weak, or in the net.

That kind of pressure isn't felt in the game at all. If I have a big server, then I just do the same button press and analog stick roll that I've been doing over and over. The pressure is there but it's not the same magnitude as actually playing the real life game of tennis.

I think 2K took a step in the right direction. I said before, irl players don't hit lines on every single serve, and in the game everybody's first and second serves were exactly the same which is not realistic at all. Perhaps tweaking the second serves would have been a better move so that ppl won't hit the lines all the time like ItaStallion said, but at least they're doing what they can with the feedback we're giving them.

I was just thinking it's a great honor to be part of a team (ITST) where the GAME DEVELOPERS look to us for opinions on how to make the game better.

...but I digress...

[theyoungmc]

All they made was to turn one of the strong builds worthless.

I used 98 power + 98 serve + serve berserker + focus service ever since I started a few weeks ago. At WT I hardly ever had a loss, even though I thought (and even more now) there were stronger builds. Today I lost the RG quarter finals against some guy with TI/MD 3-4 3-4, I could never get anywhere close to his service points, while I could only get a couple of aces, and obviously every time he could return, the advantage was to his side. I made another player with one of the strong builds just to test, even thought the big server was the one I liked the most. I had to restart WT again, and I met the same guy at RG final. I beat him 3-1 3-0

So what I think is that now there is one less choice to be competitive, that's what they did.

It was balanced the way it was. Unreal? Yes, surely, but this is a game and even though we all want to be all like real life it can never happen. You also don't see extremely angled crosscourt shots every other point, or matches with 70 winners and 3 errors.

As for the serve percentages, everybody has high 1st serve percentage in the game, it's just that ones have better serves than others. This way the serve is no longer a big weapon for big servers. They get eaten by anyone who can put the ball in play for a couple of times.

And I am more in favor of ItaStallion on the 2nd serve thing. Yeah, definitely is a mental thing, but you're not on a court with a racket in your hand, you're on a couch with a controller.... So, I would be in favor of tunning down 2nd serves to add to the risk factor. Not in power (maybe a bit), but in accuracy.

And I've also played tennis for 20+ years and I'm one of the top players in my country...

If you're coaches, don't tell me that you teach your players how to serve the 1st and 2nd serves the same way! You can risk the 2nd all the times you want, but of course with an increased risk of not having a "3rd serve". You miss, you're done. That's why I think that if the game can't simulate the "brain factor", it could get done artificially.

Long post

[djarvik]

Making serving generally harder is the right way. One just needs to look at 1st serve percentage in TS4 to realize that. The idea of delibertely making me miss second serve even if I timed it right is absurd to me.

If 2K manages to bring first serve percentage to around 60% it will solve everything.

How can you not see that serving at 90% rate is the real problem?

BTW - I disagree about the lack of pressure in virtual tennis. Pressure is THE ONLY thing separating the top players. If you say otherwise - then you haven't been playing enough ITST tournaments

[GOA MASTER MDMA]

al , you have some information 2K will change something in serve with a patch?

in my opinion the statistik is not the problem , 90 % or 60 % first serve is not the point .
the point is that they must reduce the power from first serve (98 poer+98serve+berserkercoach is simply too strong ).
and something must happens with second serve - it can´t be that both serves are identical.

[maximo]

i was hoping a patch to change Rafter's clothes, why does he play in pajama?

[theyoungmc]

1 - Making serving generally harder is the right way. One just needs to look at 1st serve percentage in TS4 to realize that. The idea of delibertely making me miss second serve even if I timed it right is absurd to me.

2 - If 2K manages to bring first serve percentage to around 60% it will solve everything. How can you not see that serving at 90% rate is the real problem?

3 - BTW - I disagree about the lack of pressure in virtual tennis. Pressure is THE ONLY thing separating the top players. If you say otherwise - then you haven't been playing enough ITST tournaments

1 - Irl, have you never missed any shot that you felt you hit perfectly fine?
2 - Completly agree, but making serve skills weaker does nothing about it. Just makes serves weaker, nothing else...
3 - I haven't played enough ITST mathes to make a comparison, but you can't say you feel the same pressure on a tennis court with a racket in your hand and in front of a TV with a controller...

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I played like 3 games last night after the patch was released.

I like how serving is now. It's harder to paint the lines with flat serves. Big servers can still use flat serves all the time and still get 90-100% first serves in like they always do , but since it's harder to paint the lines, they are actually going to have more rallies now. 1-2 punch is still effective. Except now you don't have 2 unrealistic first serves. Unrealistic meaning you can't paint the lines 90-100% of the time on the first serve, and when you do miss the first serve, you can't paint the line at 135mph on your "second" first serve. I won't be surprised if most big servers have ever used kick/slice.

Since it's a bit harder to hit the corners now, those players who only serve out wide with flat could be hampered. That trash was too effective cause even when you returned the serve your player would just freeze and they'd hit to the open court. Now they too can't always pull you out wide with the flat all the time anymore. They can still use kick/slice, but those serves aren't going to hit at 135+ now are they. So in theory you should have more time to recover if you're 10ft away from the court.

If it were up to me I'd make serving harder. I'd decrease the 1st serve percentage to about 60 for everyone else, and somewhere around 70-75 for big servers.
Yes, big servers do get in rallies. Now don't expect 13 aces in a 1 set 3games match. That was way too much.

I definitely like the direction 2k is going . Hopefully they release more patches to fix the other problems. I would love for them to increase errors in a patch, but that might be wishful thinking.

Djarvik, is there anyway I could see the patch list you guys sent to 2k? Was it a 1 time thing, or did 2k say that you can keep sending them lists of things that need to be patched up?

What is the average 1st serve percentage in ATP? How about TS4?

ROTFLMAO, not only average 1st serve percentage, but what is the average speed on second serves in TS4? I'd say 135mph.