the right to bear arms.......

[GOA MASTER MDMA]

i have readed the whole thread .
its interresting to hear the opinions .

look how much homicides/murdering happens in countrys where weapons are not allowed ,like germany -and look in USA

for me ,i´m not wondering ,that the USA have nearly the most criminals ,and nearly the most murderers on the planet.

as long this "JOHN WANE" mentality from US citizens not will change -as long it is allowed to have weapens,for nearly everyone ,so long this goes forward . kills over kills

no weapons = -much less criminal acts .that simple

plus the politics at all must change
its a very unsocial politics in USA -
POOR desperate people + weapons whooooooooohoooo
its not a wonder that this all happens

also ridicolous is the wrong morals from USA: weapons and brutality is okay in USA .- but when you show naked titts and mumus in most parts from USA -you go for 1- 10 years in jail . just a sick wrong morality.

the politics have a main fault.

by the way ,this people kill not guns -is a stupid slogan . without guns people can´t kill . no?

and don´t say people would kill than with a knife or something else.
its much more difficult to kill someone with a knife as with a gun.
physikly and mentality

Is that what you perceive Americans to be?

Are all of you see it this way?

Its sad really.

i meant this only in relation to the weapon thematik/problematik -

not that you missunderstand me !!

mean when it would be allowed to have weapons for everybody in germany -than it would not look much different Than in the USA !!

much more people would use the weapons for criminal things
and much more people would die by shooting -

overall i think its much more safer to live in a country without guns than with guns

when nobody have a gun ,you need no gun for defending.
when everybody have a gun ,of course you need a weapon too, for defending your house -family ecetera

BTW I am all for a more strict laws, but completely against eliminating guns from civilians all together. I cant help but think whats next? Knifes?

in germany this is the case. a 8 cm butterfly knive as example counts as weapon and is illegal.
when police found it ,you got punished. with this in mind very less citizen wear it ,
also when you use a weapon by a criminal act ,the punishment is much much higher than without a weapon .
so you think twice to use a gun or a knife to kick someones ass .

[Bowler2151]

I have lived in the same city my whole life and I dont know anyone who has had there house broken into or been robbed before. I live in Virginia Beach and theres over 500,000 people and I believe that Virginia Beach has one of the lowest crime rates for a population of that size.

I dont own a gun but i think its easier to get a gun in Virginia than most states but im not 100% about that. With that said, it suprises there isnt more crime because i know of alot of people who have guns so i would assume if i know alot of people who own guns, then most people would probably have one in virginia beach.

I know in recent years the city has been worried because gangs have risen a little bit and virginia beach has never had a gang problem.

For whatever reason the city I live in theres just not alot of gun realted crime even though I think there easier to get than alot of states but I know every other city around virginia beach has alot of problems with gun related crimes.

[AUSSIE_FABS]

The guns don't kill people, people do is a bit of a cop out argument.

Sure many many cases when a murder would happen regardless of if a gun was there. But just try and think about the reflex kills and how guns make it so easy for even the weakest to kill the strongest (some think this positive not sure agree). I'm just saying does having guns bring more good to u.s than bad, I'm trying to find it hard to believe that it brings hardly anything good oh yes of course cases when people would be threatened to get mugged and then the victim has a gun so can defend himself and items.

Also I still think I was right with more desperate getting guns, the desperate still need to get the money to buy it. If guns are readily accessible any bum can try get himself a gun.

But people jsut too stubborn. Also stop jsut picking out lil points out of my rants and ignoring rest lol. Oh well I'm sure something I said here will be bolded and rest of points ignored.

@cool Also with the media thing I'm not claiming media here or in europe for example is perfect and in fact a lot of british media is shit and they jsut say so much bs, but I'm talking about mainstream media the source of a lot of influence. People may be surprised how much control those in power have of media and the 'gags' they can put on media.

I just like to see people think and not just about themselves and how it makes them feel safe.

Also alive and breathing ain't much of a point djark lol, I imagine must more of you would be alive and breathing if didn't have guns

[Q. Reese]

when when when will the American lawbooks be changed? More than 11,000 gun deaths every year (in excess of twice the number of all the worlds countries added together).....for what? The right to defend yourself against other people with guns?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-gun.html

there are many terrible stories, probably some worse than this for all I know but cmon....seems to me like a whole bunch of people are making a load of money doing something pretty distasteful here - by which i means arms-dealing....but, of course dress it up under the lingo of 'constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms' blah blah blah and what happens? Nothing at all.

Get rid of them all, now, before another child, parent, brother, sister, husband, wife, mother or father dies in the name of some bullsh1t out-of-date legal article that no longer and for a very long time has had no relevance to current times.

terrible terrible terrible

I think it is quite observant of you to notice this and also express yourself about the country I am a citizen in.

I totally agree with you. Many people within the states are starting to think like you as well asking, "what is government doing for me?" A lot of people are in dismay.

Also, it does not help that entertainment promotes violence (war themes, etc.) that can be easily viewed or role-played by young children.

[djarvik]

The guns don't kill people, people do is a bit of a cop out argument.

Sure many many cases when a murder would happen regardless of if a gun was there. But just try and think about the reflex kills and how guns make it so easy for even the weakest to kill the strongest (some think this positive not sure agree). I'm just saying does having guns bring more good to u.s than bad, I'm trying to find it hard to believe that it brings hardly anything good oh yes of course cases when people would be threatened to get mugged and then the victim has a gun so can defend himself and items.

Also I still think I was right with more desperate getting guns, the desperate still need to get the money to buy it. If guns are readily accessible any bum can try get himself a gun.

But people jsut too stubborn. Also stop jsut picking out lil points out of my rants and ignoring rest lol. Oh well I'm sure something I said here will be bolded and rest of points ignored.

@cool Also with the media thing I'm not claiming media here or in europe for example is perfect and in fact a lot of british media is **** and they jsut say so much bs, but I'm talking about mainstream media the source of a lot of influence. People may be surprised how much control those in power have of media and the 'gags' they can put on media.

I just like to see people think and not just about themselves and how it makes them feel safe.

Also alive and breathing ain't much of a point djark lol, I imagine must more of you would be alive and breathing if didn't have guns

I am going to ignore your post (as if you care) for the exact reason you provided. . Not mention a very bias atitude with unknown substance. Did you live in US before? ... Was it scary?

[SoundfSilence]

Hot of the press article, titled: Why America's gun laws won't change

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12158148

[djarvik]

I like that one:

"An important thing to understand about American culture is that we tend to place responsibility and focus on individual behaviour rather than think about laws and regulations to affect behaviour,"




http://www.rense.com/general62/gns.htm


I think we need "Doctor Control", its getting out of hand really.

[Vieira151]

http://www.rense.com/general62/gns.htm

The phrase in the middle of it, reminds me of


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC03hmS1Brk

or from quite a few years ago - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXzFp1lshBE&feature=related

Im a bit off topic, but heyho

[djarvik]

I think some of you were asking for these stats, so here you go:

* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."

* Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders. Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.

* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."

* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.

* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"

[Moralspain]

Interesting point of view, article written by an american guy
New York Times:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB

[djarvik]

Read this please.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Xavi, once again, the numbers the author is using in the article you posted are simply unsupported by real polls. Simply said these are "made up" numbers, to make the article more appealing to certain demographic and certain set of mind. For example:

Just since the killings in Tucson, another 320 or so Americans have been killed by guns — anonymously, with barely a whisker of attention. By tomorrow it’ll be 400 deaths. Every day, about 80 people die from guns, and several times as many are injured.

Here author paints the picture of how many people die from guns, but he deliberately not specifying how many of these were gang related, military related, police related and yet how many were accidental discharges. The author is interested more in a total number as it paints a better (or worse) picture for the article and "speaks" to people that are more then willing to "listen" and "follow the lead", rather then spend sometime thinking about it rationally, questioning the author, questioning his conclusions that have no support other then authors proclaiming them to be true.

He further proceeds to discuss how having guns "makes you much more likely to be shot" (which is kinda lame, as it is same thing as saying having a car makes you more likely to get into car accident).... then he kindly give his opinion on "The chances that a gun will be used to deter a home invasion are unbelievably remote" and "it adds that American children are 11 times more likely to die in a gun accident than in other developed countries" - but all this has no substance, he gives no statistics to support this claim and all he is holding on is the fact that more guns = more gun discharges = more victims. Which is true, but at the same time it is just once side of the story.... and a smaller side at that.

In the in the link above (the one I posted) you can examine a few graphs and read a few real statistic (and where they are taken from) and you can see - every state that tightened gun laws suffered a dramatic increase in crime rate, homicide and shootings. And was forced to re-instate the older law. Look at Florida for a clear example (or ANY other state).

Xavi, I am all for stricter gun laws, more background check etc... To avoid the "insane" people being able to obtain them over the counter. As for accidents - that requires more gun education the buyer. People need to be educated on how to drive a car right? ... so they need to be educated how to care for a firearm. A child should never gain access to a gun in your home, same way he cant gain access to medications, your "hidden" money, your jewelry, and all other things that you decide to take an effort and make inaccessible to child.

[Moralspain]

interesting stats too....i understand your point of view Al, and watching that a no gun scenario in the USA is impossible (i still love to see that though) i support and agree with your statement.


"Xavi, I am all for stricter gun laws, more background check etc... To avoid the "insane" people being able to obtain them over the counter. As for accidents - that requires more gun education the buyer. People need to be educated on how to drive a car right? ... so they need to be educated how to care for a firearm. A child should never gain access to a gun in your home, same way he cant gain access to medications, your "hidden" money, your jewelry, and all other things that you decide to take an effort and make inaccessible to child."

Thanks for the site and info btw, that's always a good thing

[emate007]

He further proceeds to discuss how having guns "makes you much more likely to be shot" (which is kinda lame, as it is same thing as saying having a car makes you more likely to get into car accident)

Well said, except for this part which is a very poor analogy. Perhaps you meant "more likely to get into a car accident while driving a car." But in a relatively small city in socal, I almost got hit by cars all the time as a pedestrian AND cyclist.

[jayl0ve]

Say a man breaks into your house in the middle of the night. You don't have a gun. How are you going to shoot him in the head??

argument over

I win

Fatality

All Your Base are Belong to Us

The Princess is in Another Castle

Perfect

[Mike Rotchtickles]

The Princess is in Another Castle

If you're a Mario or Zelda fan, you should be aware that there are "other" reasons as well for this being the case.