the right to bear arms.......

[beltic caldy]

when when when will the American lawbooks be changed? More than 11,000 gun deaths every year (in excess of twice the number of all the worlds countries added together).....for what? The right to defend yourself against other people with guns?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-gun.html

there are many terrible stories, probably some worse than this for all I know but cmon....seems to me like a whole bunch of people are making a load of money doing something pretty distasteful here - by which i means arms-dealing....but, of course dress it up under the lingo of 'constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms' blah blah blah and what happens? Nothing at all.

Get rid of them all, now, before another child, parent, brother, sister, husband, wife, mother or father dies in the name of some bullsh1t out-of-date legal article that no longer and for a very long time has had no relevance to current times.

terrible terrible terrible

[VillaJ100]

Yeah but, then us British could go over there and they would have no way of defending themselves.

[beltic caldy]

As an Irish man and having been exposed to gun violence in Ireland in the past, I see no defensible reason for civilians to carry or use guns. Perhaps for hunting....perhaps, if the cost of human life v a past-time can be weighed up and not found wanting.

Perhaps a less flippant thought from anyone?

[jayl0ve]

All I can say is that the right to bear arms is never going away, here in the USA.

[beltic caldy]

but why not? do you not accept that it was included in the original constitution for reasons (namely having an armed civilian militia in case boat-loads of french/dutch/english etc invaders appeared) no longer and hasn't for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time applied?

i lived in california for a while a long time ago, and i did do a little shooting - hands up too, it was kinda fun and i kinda enjoyed it - there's something primal there, no doubt. but imagine it went to referendum now, for example and was the other way around - ie imagine it was currently illegal in the U.S. to buy/own a gun, under normal circumstances, and the average number of gun-related deaths was actually comparable to other countries - would you really vote for a change that meant anyone, or almost anyone could own a killing device (a gun has no other purpose, whatever justification for the killing) that would lead to 11,000 people dying every year?

really now, would you and if so, with what justification?

[jayl0ve]

I think people would just be killing each other with other weapons if there were no guns.

Honestly I'm kinda apathetic on the subject because it is something that, like I said, is never going to change.

[coke4]

Its the type of thing that will never happen.
There is a certain type of American who would never let it happen. I, like you, can't understand it, but we are from a different culture.
I can think of a few here on this site who see what you as purely wrong

[VillaJ100]

If i think it was a legal option, most people in the UK i think would own a gun, just for self defence/protection of property. Knowing our governement if it was legal a cheap pistol would be say £500, then you would have to pay gun ownership tax, licence, another tax, etc etc and it would end up being about £2000.

[Moralspain]

i don't understand and i'm against that right to have guns in USA but i respect it, from now on i'm gonna stop judging other countries laws, habits, traditions....( i did in the past), but it's definitely not my business, i don't live there so i don't have the right to criticize, i'm sure they have good reason to have that law.

[djarvik]

Its one of these old stupid laws....something to do with freedom of choice, but what do I know....let me ask my superiors, they sure know whats best for me. Can I go pee now?

[VillaJ100]

I agree with moralspain, the law is, however archaic, relevant to the country. Like djarvik on another tread mentioned how when he was in the israeli army and would walk down a street with an assault rifle, and it was just a regular thing. As a species we have a nearly unfathomable amount of variation, and things like gun laws are just part of that.

[Coolhand Texas]

I think people would just be killing each other with other weapons if there were no guns.

Honestly I'm kinda apathetic on the subject because it is something that, like I said, is never going to change.

plus if you took away guns from legal citizens then the guys who have guns are the guys who want to harm other people.

Im all for the right to bear arms!

[beltic caldy]

Hmmmm...some interesting perspectives!!

Moralspain - bro, i respect your opinion, but just assuming they have good reasons for the law to be in place....hmmmmm....unsafe assumption territory, especially in this case - also, the specific article guarantees the right to 'bear arms' - there is no mention of 9mm Uzi's or other 'home defence' weaponry - no mention of guns at all if I'm not mistaken. I cannot respect an out-moded law that no longer has any relevance - except to line the pockets of arms-dealers (call them what you will), security companies and all the ancillary industry that surrounds violent death and the fear thereof.

If i think it was a legal option, most people in the UK i think would own a gun, just for self defence/protection of property. Knowing our governement if it was legal a cheap pistol would be say £500, then you would have to pay gun ownership tax, licence, another tax, etc etc and it would end up being about £2000.

Bro - can't help feeling you're speaking more for yourself here than the majority of the UK populace - guns are legal in UK (with the exception of most hand-guns and all automatic weapons), albeit with almost the strictest licensing laws in the world now (since the Dunblane massacre?) - also, the fact is that even before the stricter legislation was introduced, gun ownership in the UK was actually very very low. Speaking for myself and practically (not all!) everyone I know in England, I would have no interest whatsoever in owning a gun/rifle/shotgun/whatever - cos the reality is is that if I can get one easily, then so can the 'bad guy'.

Al - lol!!! Yeah yeah....alluding, i think to a nanny state that many think already exists in the UK, or perhaps could exist in the U.S. but really...it's almost like state-sponsored murder, it really is - and it's like cannabis legalisation in this country in a sense - by which I mean no government will take it on because they know they won't get into power come next election time - can you imagine how powerful the gun lobby in America actually is? How do you reckon any president would fare come voting day if he took away this right?

Jay - bro - guns make the killing of people infinitely easier - the numbers from other countries clearly show that a population without easy access to lethal weaponry simply doesn't have anything like the same death rate, not even close. I do understand your apathy, but disagree with your reasoning.

Throw all the debates away, please - an 8 year-old kid being taken to a 'show' where the sport is the firing of deadly weapons - i don't care how well supervised it is or anything else - this mixing of death-tools with entertainment.....? Fun day out with instruments made to kill people? I know I'm not alone in seeing this as the perversion it truly is - fun is fun, death is death - dress it up under constitutional blah blah - just makes it a well-dressed pervert.

[VillaJ100]

Yeah i don't agree with that. Guns should, now matter how freely available, never be encouraged as being 'cool'. I don't think i would have a gun if they were legal here, i have no need or desire for it. The thing is, "actual" firearms are very difficult to obtain, however air rifles are not. i know of about 3 streets in birmingham where the only occupants are air rifle and pistol manufacturers, and the legal power restriction on them is 12 ft lb of power, which is lethal. Yet i don't know anyone with a air rifle, even though they are deadly in the wrong hands. I just think luckily the UK doesnt have the same gun culture as the US

[TomBs]

I think people would just be killing each other with other weapons if there were no guns.

Honestly I'm kinda apathetic on the subject because it is something that, like I said, is never going to change.

plus if you took away guns from legal citizens then the guys who have guns are the guys who want to harm other people.

Im all for the right to bear arms!

@jay: It would be way more difficult..

@Coolhand: Partially agree. Sure the larger criminals will have access to guns, but (at least over here) it's the sector of criminality where they'll just shoot each other. It's where the big money is, no need for them to involve 'normal' citizens.

Where you gain most is by taking away guns from people that really won't have easy access to getting them, but commit smaller crimes where normal people are involved, like robberies. Sure they'll be using another weapon, but a knife or bat is way less threatening than a gun, and way less lethal, as one has to do quite a bit more than just pull the trigger to kill someone. This not only reduces the level of injuries, but it makes the step to commit a small crime larger due to the lack of access to the most dangerous weapon.