in sports, is it ok to do whatever it takes to win?

by **beltic caldy** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:55

still can't believe what I saw tonight.

the poll question above is not specifically for the debacle result between France and The Republic of Ireland, but more a general query on the subject of fair-play versus winning.

:cry:

by **jayl0ve** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:32

I voted maybe.

If somebody really legitimately cheats me, I will definitely try to cheat them next time.

by **beltic caldy** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:03

lol!! 'legitimately cheats'.....hmmmm.....curious! think i understand what you're saying tho man

interesting....kinda like you're saying it's almost ok for people to cheat, as long as they expect the same thing to happen to them? very old-testament :wink:

by **jayl0ve** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:42

Something like that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJCa6Bp6vOo

by **beltic caldy** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:47

lol!! love that scene....! say WHAT again mofo!

by **jayl0ve** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:49

SAY. WHAT. AGAIN!!!!!

Hahaha so much anger in that line.

On topic though...what I mean by 'legitimately cheat me' is that somebody actually broke the rules of the game, ON PURPOSE/knowingly, in order to win. I don't mean that they did something underhanded or employed 'gamesmanship' (talking trash, etc etc), I really mean that they cheated. Like somebody in real-life tennis calling a ball that was very obviously GOOD as 'out'. SOME PEOPLE REALLY DO THIS!! They know that you really have very little recourse and basically have to trust their judgement.

Say I'm a UFC fighter. I'm not gonna go kneeing anybody in the balls, but if you do it to me on purpose you BEST BELIEVE you're getting kneed in the nuts!! :lol:

by **Amazing Matheja** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:29

Man...I don't know what to say about that France/Eire issue...

Here is,from a very sports's fan (believe me i watch ALL sports!),what i think :
You have Pros (talking about the broadcasted events...) "working"
And you have us playing...

Nowadays,in pros competitions, the stakes are too high...It became something else than what we knew in our prime (i'm born in 77...)...Fair play does still exists but in a very few exemples,or moments...
In exemple : It happens in Italia's soccer championship (calcio,Serie A)...A player gave the ball back quickly to the adv (fair...) Next week this guy was FIRED from the team (can't remember if it was permanent or not though...)
It's how it is now...And how it is since the 80's...
The "White collars" are now everywhere and put a lot of pressure to athletes...Win is an obligation...Let's buy everything that could make us win...If you're off-side,shut up!...If you "handball",shut up!...If you put your fingers in eyes (rugby...) shut up!...If you take drugs,shut up! (and don't get caught!)...
That's why i strongly believe this : All that we see at TV is "fake"...Fake "clean" performance,i mean...To me they're ALL DOPED!It's obvious...
But i still enjoy watching sports,the performences i see...But i know it's all "fake"...The guys i watch on TV are "protected" cause they're able to win (whatever the way is) and to earn cash!And to create demands,more cash,etc...
So,to answer your topic :
YES,in pro sports you have to do anything to win whatever it costs
NO in sports we PLAY (us,common mortals) you can't...You have to be fair!

By the way : Beltic,You can't compare what Henry did to what we "can" do in society...Your allusion to real life
"...To compare to real world - we have police, who's job is to enforce law, yes? By this anile argument, if I rob, steal or murder and get away with it, then that's the police's fault, and I have no responsibility. Ahem. Yeah...."
was off subject (to me!

)...No oofense mate,it must be very hard to swallow,it's a "f*****g disgrace" and let's all hope that referee system (too old scholl!It's the only one that has never changed in centuries!!!) will change soon!
From a french frog who was schocked too by how the France/Eire match found its issue...

Respectfully,
Mathias.

by **beltic caldy** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:22

i hear you bro, and appreciate your considered response. I'm know i'm being somewhat idealistic, but jesus....it's pretty shocking and sooooo unfair. Henry was asked if he was happy about how his team had gone through - he replied quietly 'we have not been doing so well in the last two years....' - pretty pathetic.

and i hear your argument about professional sport - but this is the world cup - its supposed to be like the olympics, is it not? these guys all make a bunch of cash as professional players, but playing for the national team?

re my argument about real world/football and police etc - i was trying to say that the responsibility for an act, any act lies with the individual performing that act - not the enforcers of whatever rule-system is in place, be that in law, rules, sports or reality - as a counter to this argument about how Henry is not to blame, but rather the officials are - and I stand by that - of course the referee system, with it's lack of technology (how long have video judges been used in American Football now?) is at fault, but that doesn't mean Henry or other blatant rule-breakers should automatically get a free-pass/exemption from playing fairly, or at the very least not cheating so deliberately - it just doesn't.

real/fake - know what you mean - it's becoming a WWF world it seems - this saddens me greatly tho, and not just because my team lost under awful circumstances - it's sad for the sport and the people who believe they're watching serious competition rather than staged nonsense.

Henry is not the devil, but he is not without blame here either - a very bad thing happened in this game, and it's to the shame of the sport as a whole that nothing will be done about it, except that the team with the cheat will progress.

I appreciate and respect your opinion in the meantime

by **jayl0ve** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:33

It doesn't look like Henry committed the 'handball' on purpose though!! It really seems like it simply accidentally made contact with his hand and he made the 'best' of it by not saying a word. So while I think he probably should have spoken up, I also don't think he was planning on touching the ball like that...

by **GOA MASTER MDMA** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:49

i mean that to . he was focused to shot a goal in a regular way and in affect he use the hand !

not enough time to think about . it was a reflex !!
but forward it is illegal !!
the referee must see that . now we see it all in TV !

i´m sure he will got suspended from FIFA for 1-2 matches

by **SoundfSilence** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:01

Cheating is cheating, plain and simple.

Why would you want cheat if you're playing a friendly game with your nephew? If you were just messing around on court, you may have banter on some close line calls, but that's not really cheating. If you went out of your way and called a ball out when it's in, and do it in a serious manner then that's cheating, but why do that

I guess not everyone prides on winning fairly, but just winning. Each to their own, but it's not right to cheat.

by **SoundfSilence** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:09

GOA MASTER MDMA wrote:i mean that to . he was focused to shot a goal in a regular way and in affect he use the hand !

not enough time to think about . it was a reflex !!

Maybe that was the case GOA, I respect your opinion and also Jaylove's, saying that it looks unintentional.

I strongly disagree that he didn't have enough time to think about it. All he needed was a split second, shall I put my hand there to bring the ball down, or shall I not... In that split second he made his choice. IMHO he knew exactly what he was doing. He may be regretting that choice now in hindsight. (This is not a recent event, but happened a few years back)

My view on this, is because I have intentionally handball in the past, and it didn't take me anytime to think about it! Now, a World class player like Henry, reason for doing is reflex and he didn't have time to think? I doubt it.

by **petrelli83** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:43

I don't like win cheating.In my little career as volleyball and tennis player I never played unfair,even if my opponent did it....I can't do it...even if I see my opponent play unfair,I try to beat him correctly...

then...I want to say I'm really sorry for TRAPATTONI who is a great professionist and man...

I'm really disappointed by henry.I have always appreciated him but now he did something really bad(as maradona in world cup '86 "la mano de dios"...even if there is a difference:I don't like maradona as person).
Henry could admit his mistake...
however what I'm sorry is that french(most of all Domenech)always talks bad about italy and italian players...he says we are cheaters,we play unfair and other bad things...now his team did the same...what should we say?
my question to french guys is:do u all have the same thought of domenech about italy?why?what do u think about what henry did?
I have no problem with france and french people...most of my favourites players are french:simon,tsonga,gourcouff...

by **beltic caldy** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:51

agree with much of this bro - Henry scored a fabulous goal against us (ireland) in the world cup qualifiers in 2006 - beautiful - no hands! To see him come to this is sad - in some ways, he is as much a victim as the irish team he cheated last night - his 'sport' has turned him into, well a dirty cheat and it is genuinely sad that he will be remembered by history more for this than his great acheivements.

blah blah on the fault being the refereeing system - yes, we all know this and yes it needs to be improved - but a faulty system doesn't justify outright cheating or cheats. it just doesn't.

by **Moralspain** » Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:01

I´ve seen so many crazy things in football in my life....i don´t know what to say....i think the answer is yes, do whatever it takes to win. I don´t do that in my private life, but football is not just a sport, it´s a business, and in business you do whatever it takes to get profits.

in sports, is it ok to do whatever it takes to win?

Regardless of the scale of the competition - be it a Wimbledon Final or a game of Tiddlywinks with your nephew - is it EVER ok to cheat to secure victory?

in sports, is it ok to do whatever it takes to win?

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