92 speed monster

[Rob ITST]

When I play against a 98/98 guy, I just try to find patterns and weaknesses. Then, I figure I only need to get one return in play during the tie-break - win that point, and the set is over.

[DennieFR1908]

The way this discussion is going kinda annoys me again. My point is so easy, The rules for MS tour where brought to balance the tour which IMO succeeded, but a 92 speed player with these rules is some kind of super defender who will get to every ball because it is not possible to counter him with simular power setups. The biggest problem about this issue is still: There is still no active ITST Staff member playing TS4 on a high level.

People won't even complain anymore because they know hosts are not looking for TS anymore, it's not like I care but it can be annoying in these kind of situations. Talks like there will always be a new dominant setup blablalb are the most annoying because this is false. It's about the rules and the leaks of these rules, you can't expect to bring up new rules and everything right away will be perfect right?. Annyway I don't even want to respond because I know how things are going and there won't be a change anyway. I rather see the rules go away so you can counter a 92 speed, now there is absolutely no setup available to do so. It's like Obskur is saying these matches are just to boring to play, sadly, staff member are not able to 'feel' what I'm saying since they dont play the game competitive this is like MI5.

[ICEMAN_9588]

@Agassi: Yes, it's the same for me, more or less.
I use a 100 power player in WT, but I always try to break my opponent before the tb. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but there are users that play with 98/98 and still good during the rally.
But I think "Ok, I returned his serve, I must try to win the point".

Anyway, the greatest lack of these guys is not only the fact that wiht speed settings/less-power settings they suck. No, not all of them.
The "problem" is that almost all uses to serve always in the same directions. They love out wide serves. So after one, two, three shots, you start to understand and try to return better (even if we're always talking about wide serve with 98/98).
The real difference between normal and good 98/98 user is this. A guy who realizes that with those skills he can practically place the ball everywhere on serve, is really hard to break.

At least, for another slow player like mine.
And here's the setups difference I was talking about before. I have a friend on PSN, good player, he uses Babb very well. No tramlines, he can vary his serve direction, and he can place the ball on the lines at 220 kmh average. So everytime I just have to guess where he'll hit. In fact, like 90% of our matches ended with one or two tie breaks.
Then I faced him with my second player on my second account, 0-15-5 with Neuwirth. Score: 4-2 3-1-
I enjoied that match cause I've never had real problems to return his serve (even if he aced me a couple of times, but it's normal), and with control shots I sent him from side to side of the court, and he ran and ran and ran
Same thing against another PSN friend, he always asks me to play on line (I always win, even without tb), so one day I decided to use my Neuwirth ITST player. Was leading 6-3 4-0, he disconnected so I said "Connection problems?" and he answered "Yes!" even if we both knew it was a lie

That's why I think that more balanced settings have their arguments against pure power.
Yes, you must have near-perfect timing on the ball, but try to see it from the other side. If a 98/98 can't make you in trouble with his serve, what else he got left?
Power shots? You have control shots, and if you're good using them, you have more chances to win the rally. Not only, cause on return, this players really suck. If you hit a non-power service, they will be literally forced to return in slice, so you can start the rally in an offensive way, and when they have to be defensive, they can be as good as Shocase, but they remain 40-43 speed players after all...
And when you're a fast player who can greatly use control shots, even when they're leading the rally, they must hit power shots with good/perfect timing, with perfect placement, and with perfect angle.
That's not something you can recap with a simple "Oh you have power, it's so easy this way"....

That's what most users think when they create a new player on TS4, "Oh yeah, now I have power, no one can oppose me".
Ok, these guys, they deserve to lose

[Agassi_Return]

I have a friend on PSN, good player, he uses Babb very well. No tramlines, he can vary his serve direction, and he can place the ball on the lines at 220 kmh average. So everytime I just have to guess where he'll hit. In fact, like 90% of our matches ended with one or two tie breaks.
Then I faced him with my second player on my second account, 0-15-5 with Neuwirth. Score: 4-2 3-1-

Just ask your friend to pick a tennis player who have not a good serve and I am 100% sure he will lose 0-3 0-3. ... Thats what I am talking about. You may win the game but the 98/98 setting make games more close as speed settings, IF your opponent sucks on playing tennis and know nothing about control shots.

Just face it: On the one hand you play with speed setting and need to learn to hit SEVERAL shots with perfect timing, use verity of shots (defence and offence), anticipate shots (cause you cant react to power 98 in every situation), use perfect player movement to hit good control shots and on THE OTHER hand you have a guy who uses 98/98 power setting who ONLY mastered the serve and only need to hit ONE or TWO perfect serve shots for an ace or just finish with the next point to WIN his serve game, to MAKE the game close and maybe have a chance to win the tie break.

Thats the whole point and topic about the thread: Speed settings requires much more practice and skill. If you dont want spend your time on pacticing with speed setting and go the easy way and pick one of the power settings (with good serve), than dont complain about speed settings.

[ICEMAN_9588]

I have a friend on PSN, good player, he uses Babb very well. No tramlines, he can vary his serve direction, and he can place the ball on the lines at 220 kmh average. So everytime I just have to guess where he'll hit. In fact, like 90% of our matches ended with one or two tie breaks.
Then I faced him with my second player on my second account, 0-15-5 with Neuwirth. Score: 4-2 3-1-

Just ask your friend to pick a tennis player who have not a good serve and I am 100% sure he will lose 0-3 0-3. ... Thats what I am talking about. You may win the game but the 98/98 setting make games more close as speed settings, IF your opponent sucks on playing tennis and know nothing about control shots.

Just face it: On the one hand you play with speed setting and need to learn to hit SEVERAL shots with perfect timing, use verity of shots (defence and offence), anticipate shots (cause you cant react to power 98 in every situation), use perfect player movement to hit good control shots and on THE OTHER hand you have a guy who uses 98/98 power setting who ONLY mastered the serve and only need to hit ONE or TWO perfect serve shots for an ace or just finish with the next point to WIN his serve game, to MAKE the game close and maybe have a chance to win the tie break.

Thats the whole point and topic about the thread: Speed settings requires much more practice and skill. If you dont want spend your time on pacticing with speed setting and go the easy way and pick one of the power settings (with good serve), than dont complain about speed settings.

Yes, but the other point is: when you've practiced a few, power is easily "tamable" with speed/counter-shot settings.
On the other hand, when I face guys with Samala, Welch or Boskovic, I need much more time to win a point than with my 100 power player.
Not only, cause if my opponent is really good, I have a lot of chance to lose the match.

And when I use my 100 power player, of course I don't simply hit X button all the time (even at the serve), cause I've made the same reasoning as yours.
You cannot win using only pure power, so I try to vary and I'll tell you more: I HOPE that people think (like you in a way, for example) "Oh, another power player that can only press X button", cause when they find out I can play a little bit different, they don't expect it, so they sometimes simply don't know what to do.

And that's pretty satisfying, I admit it

PS And I want also say that the problem isn't that power players need only one or two perfectly timing shots to win the point. I mean, players like Isner, Karlovic, Raonic, but also Del Potro or Soderling, they all prefer to win a poin with 2-3 shots maximum.
The big difference between reality and videogame is first serve percentage and overall numbero of unforced errors.
In TS4 you can serve 90% first serve at 220 kmh AVERAGE. Same thing for the second serve.
And during the rally, is quite hard to miss a ball by yourself. Unforced are very rare, and so are forced errors.
This is the problem, to me.

[JohnCurveo]

Thats the whole point and topic about the thread: Speed settings requires much more practice and skill.

Just ask your friend to pick a tennis player who have not a good serve and I am 100% sure he will lose 0-3 0-3.

yeah, i remmeber when i told ya to play match with current rules Babb and u told i have to play with a player with 75 or less power and then we will play. I'm usre if u pick Rabari and u play with him u will lose 03 03 easy.

We're talking here with Mr dropshot-lob-alltime artist, Wefan/M.Chang, Sandman on itst.

[Agassi_Return]

Thats the whole point and topic about the thread: Speed settings requires much more practice and skill.

Yep thats why you play with power settings

yeah, i remmeber when i told ya to play match with current rules Babb and u told i have to play with a player with 75 or less power and then we will play. I'm usre if u pick Rabari and u play with him u will lose 03 03 easy.
We're talking here with Mr dropshot-lob-alltime artist, Wefan/M.Chang, Sandman on itst.

You forget something: You losed all 3(4?) games against me and i told you pick someone who have not a good serve. Because i wanted to see what you gonna do without your good (trimeline) serve. You denied. Why? Because all your tactics are build on (trimeline) serve and making the point with the next shot. Thats why i used lobs on your (trimeline) serve cause i knew that you are one trick pony who only use that unbalanced serve to make points. Nice try Mr. Trimeline/One-Trick-Pony/Serve aka PSN:JohnIsner.

I'm usre if u pick Rabari and u play with him u will lose 03 03 easy.

LOL! After losed all games aganst me you telling me you gonna win easily against me? Dude...

By the way i am not sandman and i didnt spam dropshots on you.

@ICEMAN

The big difference between reality and videogame is first serve percentage and overall numbero of unforced errors.
In TS4 you can serve 90% first serve at 220 kmh AVERAGE. Same thing for the second serve.
And during the rally, is quite hard to miss a ball by yourself. Unforced are very rare, and so are forced errors.
This is the problem, to me.

I do agree. Thats the main problem why players like JohnCurveo is good in TS4. There is ZERO risk to hit the lines with 220 Kmph on second serve and a good serve gives you the best opportunity to win your serve game and stay in the game.

[ICEMAN_9588]

Well, actually I meant to say that this particular "structure" of TS4 counts for every player.
So yes, power setting gives you huge power risk shots near/on the lines, but speed and defensive setting keep in almost ALL your gaps.

I mean, in WT I've faced guys using Samala (not the 0-0-20 setup, I'm also saying 0-5-15 or similar) that could not miss one ball, even if they would!
When I play with my Neuwirth player, it's tiring for me, cause at a point, I hit winners from every side of the court, but the ball always comes back, and at certain point, here comes the shot (control shot or normal shot) that turns the rally against me...

Same thing with my 100 power player.
When I face John Curveo, I physically cannot play on his backand, it's unplayable for my backhand itself (it's only 60). He uses Rabari, but it's not the only.
There's a guy in WT with 0-12-8 and Neuwirth setup, he is french, we play a lot of matches (sometimes I win, sometimes he wins), he has 74-74 wings and plays fantastic.
And I cannot touch his backhand. Even if I use inside out, it must be absolutely PERFECT: power, placement, angle. Nothing can go wrong, cause he can hit his street cross court backhand and good bye, point lost in 80% of the cases....

So when I face him, I'm started thinking your words about risky power shots with power settings
And every time I lose the point cause of his control shots I say to myself "But yes, power is better for sure"

[DennieFR1908]

You mean Michaevalman or something like that? the 74/74 neuwirt french guy?

[ICEMAN_9588]

Machiavellman, Precisely.
Of course, when I say he plays great, I'm comparing him to WT general level.
But I think he could be succesful in ITST too (infact I suggested him the site, but I don't know if he will try).