Straight arm VS Bend Arm Forehands

[Ali-Iqb93]

The image djarvik you posted is when federer's raquet has already made contact with the ball.. Having a slight bend in the elbow after making contact with the ball and swinging your arm is natural. This is what prevents injury. My point was locking the elbow just before your raquet makes contact with the ball or better yet at the instant when the raquet just touches the ball. Hope this picture explains you

[djarvik]

No it doesn't. It is still bend here.

It's not the point though. There is such term as "straight arm forehand", it just doesn't imply a complete straight arm. It also is a very hard forehand to execute and is not taught usually. The results you see come natural to both of these players. All pros, when little, start with a rather pronounced double bend, as they lack strength to execute the straight arm. With the time, they develop the necessary strength and may adjust their point of contact. Point of contact is what determines how bend your arm is. Further away from the body - straighter, closer to the body - more bent. It is way easier to control the objects when they are closer to you. So most pros stay with that point of contact. Some prefer the ball further away. But the sheer majority of pronounced double bend forehands out there should tell you, that for most people, the more comfortable and effective way to hit a forehand is a clear double bend. What you trying to do is take the exception and make it a rule, a great way to destroy your forehand if you have one, and a great way to slow down or halt progress if you starting out.

[Ali-Iqb93]

Straight arm or lock arm while contacting the ball is I believe more or less the Same thing. anyways this is what I did and I learned "to straight the arm". It does help btw during passing shots. and also the fact that fed-rafa has been more consistent all these years hitting passing shots

[djarvik]

Not the same thing buddy.

Here is an example (skip the text):




Like I said, for some it maybe natural, for some not. For most it will feel uncomfortable and hard to control.

Another thing to remember, Federer hits lots of forehands. He hits with double bend, straight, reverse, WW and so on. All depending on where hit makes contact with the ball. Straight arm techniques requires great eyes, good timing and excellent footwork. Your contact point is away AND in front of your body.

Ali, do what you like enjoy playing. Not trying to change your "feeling", just going by the facts, stats and personal coaching experience.

[djarvik]

Here is a good Slow motion of Federer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk


Note how the arm is straight, but not completely locked.

[Ali-Iqb93]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMHJGpy ... ata_player

[djarvik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPLmCqGI ... re=related

[Ali-Iqb93]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZFCuVPM ... ata_player

[djarvik]

Here is a good analysis. I agree with the coach on a lot of points:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1smWetSw ... playnext=2

[Ali-Iqb93]

That's what I told you.. Slightly bend after making the contact, not before.. Before making the contact arm maybe bent but only few degrees and is almost negligible. Its natural cuz no one is perfect. I ll always prefer single bent position

[djarvik]

That's what I told you.. Slightly bend after making the contact, not before.. Before making the contact arm maybe bent but only few degrees and is almost negligible. Its natural cuz no one is perfect. I ll always prefer single bent position

After contact, the arm is not slightly bend. It is if you pause the video, but guess what, there is no pause, after contact you complete your swing. There is no accent on "slightly bend after" the contact.

You do however got that right: "maybe bent but only few degrees"...but I would not call it negligible. The difference in feel could be drastic, you just dont see it.


The straightening of the arm is done to gain more leverage. That "could" yield more power, or a higher contact point - depending on the grip used, but it comes at the cost of consistency especially for someone with less then stellar footwork. For a club level player, unless it feels completely natural - I would suggest strongly to stay away.

Here is a good summery as well:

Straight arm forehand opens up the limitations associated with different grips and increases overall power.

For conservative Eastern grips, it enables more natural forearm rotation, thereby increasing effective spin without giving up pace. For extreme grips, it increases your contact zone, enabling you to hit flat shots at waist or below level as well as your spinners at and above the shoulder level. In terms of overall power, it increases the effective line toward the ball, thereby enabling you to further accelerate the racquet and extend into the shot.

Naturally, it also have its disadvantages. It moves the contact zone further out. For somebody like Nadal, it's so far out that it's difficult for him to actually step into anything but a short ball. For somebody learning the WW FH, it reinforces very, very bad habits (especially overrotation of the torso), and can lead to somebody effectively screwing up their groundstroke. Once you can hit a WW FH in your sleep, it's a natural progression. Most people who use a straight-arm FH only use it to hit certain shots, and Federer himself doesn't use it as often as people assume. When he wants to hit an inside-out FH, he'll switch to a straight-arm, so that he can get the spin to pull down a wide angle. When he rallies CC shots with somebody else, he doesn't use it as much.

In terms of evolution, my impression is that straight-arm FH mostly arose from the Spanish variation of the FH (or what is taught in Spanish academies.) The trademark of the Spanish FH is a very, very heavy ball, whether it's a Nadal bouncer or a flatter Ferrero shot. There, they also emphasize more comeback strokes and emphasis on using extension through ball to generate most of pace. So, in that sense, the straight-arm variation is the logical extension of it.

[Ali-Iqb93]

Bending of arm after making the contact with the ball is quite natural and obvious. This is what I was not talking about even in the first place. My point was straightening the arm as you approach the ball and locking it at the instant the raquet makes contact with the ball. The picture I posted above explains it. One can clearly tell how federer's elbow is locked while his raquet makes contact with the ball. Now if you re gonna say that federer elbow is 0.000002 degrees bent then I would definitely call it negligible cuz that much bending while contacting the ball is natural. Whatever shot selection fed-rafa do they still would straight or lock their elbow. I ve never personally seen federer bending his arm while contacting the ball. Offcourse his Elbow can't be straight and stiff 100% but both of them do lock it as much as they can

Anyways that's what I did and that's what make me feel comfortable. I feel my placement is better using this technique and I have complete freedom over the ball and get better control.

[djarvik]

I heard your opinion, I think you wrong, so are many other teaching Pros. But tennis is different for everyone, do what you feels right. That is what it is all about. I was just taken back by your advocating this is a better, or a right way of doing it - which is not true.

"Bending of arm after making the contact with the ball is quite natural and obvious" - for you maybe, but trust me, for a beginner or even and intermediate player is not so obvious. In fact, most of them attempt to straighten the arm towards the target, leading the ball.

As for Federer, he has many forehands. You are taking one data sample and making it the rule. This is not true. He hits with double bend and reverse too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_XamJSL ... re=related

Look at the first one, pause at contact.

He does, like I said earlier, has the arm straighter then most double bend, but there is a bend in lots of his forehands, a visible one too. Most times it happens on cross court shots. On inside out forehands, he straightens his arm completely, although I still think there is no elbow lock, at least not deliberate, intentional, thought out, it may happen because of the forward momentum and it is there while the bicep is rather relaxed, then it flexes right at contact and unlocks. Hitting with locked elbow just has little to no feel.

Same video above, look at 1:00 minute on. This is the forehand where he moves away from the ball, running over to hit a Forehand. This is the ones he straighten the arm completely on. Again, arm straight, but bicep flexed during contact. Flexing bicep releases the "lock" on the elbow. So he first initiates the shoulder turn, lagging his racket behind a bit. The distance from the ball (contact point) causes his arm to straighten. Right before and through the contact he flexes the bicep and ACCELERATES through the ball. It is physically impossible to accelerate with locked elbow through the ball at that point.


Same video, pause at 1:37 Look at that contact point. Look were it is. There is no way for him to hit with anything but a straight arm here. Do you think this is something a beginner or even intermediate player can replicate? The contact point is way out in front and away from the body. Anyone without a solid strokes behind him and years of practice simply cannot replicate this. Taking a step closer and hitting a double bend on this ball is possible even for a beginner.

Same video, 2:48 and on, look how he "throws"/ "pulls" his arm (that is straight) into the shot by virtue of shoulder turn, but when he is about to contact he pronates and flexes. Keep watching the rest of the slow motions, the INTENT is not to lock your elbow on contact, quite the opposite, if anything, it is the RELEASE the lock into the contact, the lock that "may" happened by keeping your arm lose and initiating a violent but controlled shoulder turn.

I am happy to discuss this further if you wish. I am looking at things a bit different here. I am looking at what would a player think of when doing something like that? ...thinking about "locking" the elbow on contact to me is as bad as it gets. A sure way to destroy the existing stroke or a sure way to NOT develop further. What I would do is try and find a comfort zone for a player by moving his contact point. I would ask him to try make contact with the ball a bit in front, maybe a bit to the side as well. See the result and go from there. Basically find a natural contact for that particular player. It is a process. There is no magical "lock your elbow on contact and all is well" here, this is an internet myth, a "ShamWow".

[Ali-Iqb93]

Ok then maybe I m looking at things differently and confusing the terms "straightening" and "locking". My biceps contract after making contact with ball. During contact and before making contact my triceps are contracted which straightens my elbow region.

When I said biceps contracts and bend the elbow region after making the contact, this is what I meant to say(photo below). This is what I feel is natural or maybe it comes naturally to me cuz this the only way to force your arm to your back

[Ali-Iqb93]

This is what explains better. Triceps contracting before and at the instant raquet makes contact and after the contact biceps contract causing bending and moves the arm to his back