UEFA Euro 2012

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Postby TomBs » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:51

Tamthewasp wrote:I dislike holland but have always respected the style of play. It just seems 2 me that they have no heart and would rather happily try hard for their clubs and pick up the massive wage wage packet than actually want 2 win for the national team. My national team SUCKS but I can tell you now that nearly evry1 selected for SCOTLAND will play their heart out and give their all for the country.


True, in general I feel the real winner mentality just isn't there. Also something I spot in Robin Haase btw :(
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Postby Tamthewasp » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:07

Hey TomBs nice 2 meet you.

You do need a De jong in your team but you need a modric next 2 him. Some 1 who can hold the ball up but also make a tackle and pick out a pass and who is technically sound. This is what I expect from Ze dutch.
Van de Vaart I believe is much more of a BIG game player than the whole of the dutch squad except maybe VP. And what you say about Kuyt.... Thats exactly the type of DIE HARD attitude that you need in your squad
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Postby TomBs » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:22

Likewise!

Sneijder can play in a Modric-like role, he doesn't need to be the '10'.

And yes, Kuyt has got an excellent mentality and has been really useful in the past, but nowadays it can't make up for his lack of skills anymore. He doesn't fit into the team anymore. We need creativity on the wings, and a good header up front. Kuyt lacks both creativity and is too short to win many battles in the air.

I don't know the youth teams of Holland too well though, so haven't got a clue if there's much talent nowadays. I think they perform well in the EC/WC/Olympics though.
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Postby Tamthewasp » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:31

You are focusing 2 much on the creativity. When you have kuyt in your team who fights for evry ball, tracks back and pushes up and down the pitch, Other players see this commitment and it encourages other players to do the same...
Many games I've watched when 1 Player puts a crunching legal tackle or a player chases a def out for a corner (exactly what kuyt does) and the game changed because.
A. That picks the fans up.
B. The players get a little more confident.
C. Wich picks the fans up more, and this circle keeps on going
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Postby TomBs » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:22

I agree with you, but I beg to differ about Kuyt being the right person for that now.
Kuyt has been on in both matches for 10 minutes each, and was fairly unnoticable. Now 10 minutes isn't too long, and I'm sure he has put his heart in, but still it didn't lead to much change. As his actions didn't work out, his mentality also wouldn't spark onto the team.
No matter how much a fighter a player is, they still need a certain skill level, and right now I think Kuyt is lacking that. He isn't the player that he used to be anymore. He still works his ass off, but it doesn't pay off anymore, it's not the spark the team needs anymore. Right now they might as well put me in there, and I've hardly ever played football in my life.

And I feel Sneijder and De Jong are fighters as well, and should be able to provide that spark once things don't go as smoothly as planned.
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Postby Tamthewasp » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:26

I guess we both disagree about Kuyts talents and I am a big fan of his as my english team is liverpool but you maybe right. But i believe he HAS THE RIGHT ATTITUDE and SKILL.
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Postby Tamthewasp » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:34

An Kuyt aint a 10 minute super sub. 4 4 2 for holland. Then you wing De jong N Snjeider middle kuyt n robben wde huntellar an vp up top
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Postby Vieira151 » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:53

Tamthewasp wrote:I guess we both disagree about Kuyts talents and I am a big fan of his as my english team is liverpool but you maybe right. But i believe he HAS THE RIGHT ATTITUDE and SKILL.


Really? Awesome. :3
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Postby Tamthewasp » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:57

Dude Anfield was my 2nd home for many a year.
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Postby SlicerITST » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:49

You are not wrong Tam. It is exactly the thing why Kuyt was invaluable for the team in 2010. But that is two years ago. A lot has changed since then. Kuyt his skill is long gone. He doesnt have the stamina to give 110% anymore. And the worst part is the matches he got into the field he didnt really show a lot of work ethic to me. Not as much as i am used to see with him. He did mention of being dissapointed of not being in the starting line-up.

Its good to have a motivator in the team. But the mistake that is most often made when assembling a team is relying on the former glory of these motivators. At one point you just have to cut them.

Anyways, the problem of the Dutch team is quite simple. Its the coach and Sneijder. Van Marwijk wants to play quite defensive with quick conversions. Almost counter like. But mostly with a quick transfer from a defensive to attackive stance. With Sneijder and Robben in form this worked like a charm in 2010. Robben was either already behind the defence or kept 2 or sometimes 3 opponents busy. Giving the others room to excel. But Robben is out of form at the moment. He doesnt get past anyone.

So the counter tactic is out. We are still employing this tactic though. What they should have done is revert back to the Dutch school of thinking. Start moving forward and backward as a team. Try to play football with the entire team on the opponents half of the pitch. At the moment the team is torn in two. The attackive players move forward ripping the midfield apart. In the remainder of the tournament pay attention to the German midfield. Khedira, Schweinsteiger and Ozil all have a similar role as the Dutch midfield. But their positioning is way better.

It was funny for me to see that van Bommel was subbed for van der Vaart and Rafael had to play on van Bommel's position. After some getting used to it the team actually started to play better but in the end the same problem existed. Two Dutch midfielders often where facing 3 German midfielders. Khedira had no problems letting Sneijder go. Even if he got the ball where would he have passed to?

Id prefer the team to play like this:
de Jong
Sneijder van der Vaart

Robben Huntelaar van Persie

This seems like a small change but it is actually a big change. But then the Sneijder trap card is activated. In this role Sneijder will have a lot of defensive tasks as well. And as anyone can see watching him play he simply refuses to do any defensive work. In the 2010 tactic this was great. Letting Sneijder go was deadly for the opposition. He'd get the ball on the conversion and would launch Robben. Bam goal and through to the final.

Anyways, im sure nobody cares about this post. :lol: I just had to get it off my chest.
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Postby Moralspain » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:47

SlicerITST wrote:Im not looking forward to this tournament at all. Holland is just not in great shape. Our defence has only gotten worse since 2010. Our main leftback is injured and we dont really have a cover.......)


you were right Floris
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Postby SlicerITST » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:20

Moralspain wrote:
SlicerITST wrote:Im not looking forward to this tournament at all. Holland is just not in great shape. Our defence has only gotten worse since 2010. Our main leftback is injured and we dont really have a cover.......)


you were right Floris


Xavi, would you agree that Spain should really field a main striker instead of trying to recreate the Barcelona tactic (but then they are lacking Messi)?
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Postby Amazing Matheja » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:30

Someone to put a bet on the Netherlands ? The odds must be nice now... ^^
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Postby coke4 » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:11

Tamthewasp wrote:P.S COME ON EIRE.


*cough* Ireland *cough*
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Postby Moralspain » Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:36

SlicerITST wrote:
Moralspain wrote:
SlicerITST wrote:Im not looking forward to this tournament at all. Holland is just not in great shape. Our defence has only gotten worse since 2010. Our main leftback is injured and we dont really have a cover.......)


you were right Floris


Xavi, would you agree that Spain should really field a main striker instead of trying to recreate the Barcelona tactic (but then they are lacking Messi)?


yep i'd rather watch Spain playing with 1 striker, but i do think we can play well playing with Cesc like the other day, in my opinion the dry and long grass harmed our game, it's not an excuse but that fact was,definitely, not a positive aspect for Spain's typical fast game.
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