Drops everywhere.

[MrMackNasty]

The only problem i have with slices are POWER slices when your in an offensive position. No matter what you oppenent almost automatically has to do a reach swing animation and you can take over the rally and point from there on out.

[el duuderino]

You like to argue ah?

Can you hit control shots extreme short cross every time you want? You wish. Lob controls? I played since day one and this is the first I hear of it. Not saying this could not become a problem, just never encountered it. Short angle slices only work if your opponent is a good few feet behind the baseline. Slices ARE overpowered in all TS games, I agree, but not any specific slices - all of them. Since we cannot just do away with slices in a tennis game, we have to leave with it. Power shots on the corners over and over? Really? You can do that? LOL Didn't notice in our match or were you going easy on me?

We are not trying to become completely realistic, complete SIM, it is impossible. But we are trying to be somewhat realistic and true to life. Drop shots and drop volleys are not only overpowered, they are too easy to pull off and are a rarity in a real tennis game. Hence they become cheesy when overused.

It's funny how you think that this thread and a few more on the subject offer no argument for you. You either don't read them, don't grasp the concept or simply want to argue about something, doesn't matter what.

i don't know how to quote people correctly yet, so i just copy/pasted, but...


well said arvik

[SIeeepy]

it was at beginning serve berserker , than TI MD ,now dropshots and later ......who knows

The majority of players I've been playing on WT these days have been the Instant Rocket/Monster Defense combo. I think thats where it has "evolved" because most of the ITST players I've encountered have been Crushing Passing Shot/Instant Rocket, since MD is not allowed lol. Also there seem to be more purely S&V players on WT with the 18/2/0 setup. And I've seen a rise in the Semi-Volley King/Shot Counter skill, probably to counter IR/MD. I find it so frustrating when the SVK/SC people stand in no mans land and hit everything on the rise lol. But thats the name of the game I'm not complaining or calling anyone out I think the game has become more diversified though. Lol. I just kinda realized Im probably off topic......DROPSHOTS.......BAD.....

[dsavbeast012]

The thing is that the game is off balance now since it's so hard to hit winners from the baseline. That's why you have the long rallies that a lot of people dislike post patch, which leads to people think that the only way to win a point is to hit a drop shot. Add to that the fact that a lot of guys have low speed stats (even though speed doesn't matter) and that's why people abuse the drop shot.

TBH there is no solution. There are plenty of shots just as flawed in this game like the drop shot is by being either overpowered or too easy to hit (slice, control shots, volleys) or underpowered (flat shots).

If the aim of the game is to replicate 'real life' then S&V would be banned since that's practically extinct on the real tour, am i right? Of course I'm not saying that S&V should be banned. And I do see how people abuse the drop shots. Every point it shouldn't be used, but there is no specific number that should be put on what determines 'cheese' in the use of drop shots. But I do think that a player should be able to use drop shots more when playing someone w/ low speed and volley stats.

That's not 'cheese' IMO, that's good strategy to make a slow power player come to the net instead of just bashing with them and losing playing 'their' game.

[Julius Jackson]

this might be a case of missing the forest for the trees...

how is hitting short angle control shots every single pt any different that hitting drop shots? or drop volleys? or hitting control lobs whenever u are trailing in a pt? or hitting short angle slices? or hitting power shots to the corners over and over? none of those things are sim, guys. yet there isnt a player in ITST that doesnt do one of them. so why are we picking on drops?

maybe because drops actually make speed matter...and guess what? NO ONE has speed!!! if you have speed then drops are easily countered.

someone please outline an argument how drops are any more cheesy or unsim than any of the above mentioned tactics. id love to read it...

You like to argue ah?

Can you hit control shots extreme short cross every time you want? You wish. Lob controls? I played since day one and this is the first I hear of it. Not saying this could not become a problem, just never encountered it. Short angle slices only work if your opponent is a good few feet behind the baseline. Slices ARE overpowered in all TS games, I agree, but not any specific slices - all of them. Since we cannot just do away with slices in a tennis game, we have to leave with it. Power shots on the corners over and over? Really? You can do that? LOL Didn't notice in our match or were you going easy on me?

We are not trying to become completely realistic, complete SIM, it is impossible. But we are trying to be somewhat realistic and true to life. Drop shots and drop volleys are not only overpowered, they are too easy to pull off and are a rarity in a real tennis game. Hence they become cheesy when overused.

It's funny how you think that this thread and a few more on the subject offer no argument for you. You either don't read them, don't grasp the concept or simply want to argue about something, doesn't matter what.

its simply a matter of having the stats and/or super powers/abilities to pull off the shots. 80+ FH with poisoned slices will allow you short angle slice winners or set up winners almost at will vs any non-elite player. control lobs to the back with an 80+ wing...just as easy as dropshots. TI lets u carve the short angles all day. all of this is RARE IRL (as are dropshots and arguably drop volleys) but yet complaints are only about the drops...

were in a forest, guys. look at all the cheesy trees!!!!!!!! if you mandate a limit to drops (especially an absurd limit to drop volleys) then how can u not mandate a limit to short angle shots? to control lobs? to control returns altogether? the theme is that control shots ruin the gm...just as much as dropshots. but heres the thing: everyone bases their gm around the overpowered control shots so they become cool...an excellent counter to those -- drops -- is NOT cool, tho feeling the hypocrisy?

that said, hitting a dropshot FROM BEHIND THE BASELINE is cheesy and should be frowned upon if not altogether banned. but if youre inside the baseline i dont see how you can logically restrict them without restricting other arguably even more cheesy tactics. regulating drop volleys....i dont see how thats even being considered.

[Julius Jackson]

The thing is that the game is off balance now since it's so hard to hit winners from the baseline. That's why you have the long rallies that a lot of people dislike post patch, which leads to people think that the only way to win a point is to hit a drop shot. Add to that the fact that a lot of guys have low speed stats (even though speed doesn't matter) and that's why people abuse the drop shot.

TBH there is no solution. There are plenty of shots just as flawed in this game like the drop shot is by being either overpowered or too easy to hit (slice, control shots, volleys) or underpowered (flat shots).

If the aim of the game is to replicate 'real life' then S&V would be banned since that's practically extinct on the real tour, am i right? Of course I'm not saying that S&V should be banned. And I do see how people abuse the drop shots. Every point it shouldn't be used, but there is no specific number that should be put on what determines 'cheese' in the use of drop shots. But I do think that a player should be able to use drop shots more when playing someone w/ low speed and volley stats.

That's not 'cheese' IMO, that's good strategy to make a slow power player come to the net instead of just bashing with them and losing playing 'their' game.

ah, wisdom

[ANILTJE]

Julius J. You miss the point really.

We are not really talking about . It's not that a dropvolley or dropshot can't be hit. But just look at an ATP match and see how many drops are hit. Or FH offensive slices etc etc.
There is just no way you will see 3 dropvolleys or dropshots in every game the whole match.

You know exactly what we talk about so I agree with Djarvik I think you just like to argue or something

[edlglide]

The majority of players I've been playing on WT these days have been the Instant Rocket/Monster Defense combo. I think thats where it has "evolved" because most of the ITST players I've encountered have been Crushing Passing Shot/Instant Rocket, since MD is not allowed lol.

Instant Rocket is the set-up I have the most problems with by far -- not saying it should be banned or anything, just that I seem to get destroyed every time I play someone using that skill whereas I am better against other players.

[Julius Jackson]

Julius J. You miss the point really.

We are not really talking about . It's not that a dropvolley or dropshot can't be hit. But just look at an ATP match and see how many drops are hit. Or FH offensive slices etc etc.
There is just no way you will see 3 dropvolleys or dropshots in every game the whole match.

You know exactly what we talk about so I agree with Djarvik I think you just like to argue or something

ehhh

my pt is that the stuff im mentioning is just as rare. how many short angle control winners u see in an atp match? how many control lobs? looping topspin returns of serve?

i agree that dropshots are rare in tennis...but if youre going to pick on them you cant turn a blind eye to the other stuff which is just as rare...and abused just as much. if you do then you are simply catering to the masses on ITST who play baseline and never come inside the service boxes but to smash a winner.

[ANILTJE]

There are many things wrong with the game but as you said drops are rare so that why they are being picked on. Very easy.

[Julius Jackson]

There are many things wrong with the game but as you said drops are rare so that why they are being picked on. Very easy.

yes, but dont you see that you are being biased? you are concentrating on 1 aspect of the gm (that just happens to hurt the majority of players on ITST) while ignoring the rarefied cheese that the majority uses itself

[ANILTJE]

I wrote about drops but in my intial post I mentioned about cheese in general.
Basically asking for common sense when playing the game.

[Julius Jackson]

I wrote about drops but in my intial post I mentioned about cheese in general.
Basically asking for common sense when playing the game.

you did mention other things in the OP. very true. but the main drive of your thread was to discuss drops.

WE are in agreement about them. i just dont see how its fair to regulate drops and ignore everything else. i think most people would like to see them basically banned so that they can run around and hit control shot winners with 50 spd

[djarvik]

its simply a matter of having the stats and/or super powers/abilities to pull off the shots. 80+ FH with poisoned slices will allow you short angle slice winners or set up winners almost at will vs any non-elite player. control lobs to the back with an 80+ wing...just as easy as dropshots. TI lets u carve the short angles all day. all of this is RARE IRL (as are dropshots and arguably drop volleys) but yet complaints are only about the drops....

Hmm... I am quite sure you are wrong. Abilities/skills are nothing more then timing windows manipulation.

- Why almost no one uses poison slice setups then?
- Control lobs? Seriously, maybe its me, anyone else here encountered this?
- TI - that is why we made the rules, Top Spin shot doesn't need "help" in TS4.

So explain why complaints are about drop shots? Why vast majority find them they way they are? Why I am received daily PMs complaining about them? I have yet to receive any complaints about Lobs thou...

were in a forest, guys. look at all the cheesy trees!!!!!!!! if you mandate a limit to drops (especially an absurd limit to drop volleys) then how can u not mandate a limit to short angle shots? to control lobs? to control returns altogether? the theme is that control shots ruin the gm...just as much as dropshots. but heres the thing: everyone bases their gm around the overpowered control shots so they become cool...an excellent counter to those -- drops -- is NOT cool, tho feeling the hypocrisy?

Not sure what you mean by "mandate a limit", I think we stated a few times very clearly that there will be no limit.

Not feeling the hypocrisy at all. Just feeling you imposing your opinion.
There are TONS of things wrong with EVERY game. But the line WILL be drawn somewhere by ITST. We made a choice, picked a color, and drew it.

that said, hitting a dropshot FROM BEHIND THE BASELINE is cheesy and should be frowned upon if not altogether banned. but if youre inside the baseline i dont see how you can logically restrict them without restricting other arguably even more cheesy tactics. regulating drop volleys....i don't see how that's even being considered.

I am not surprised you don't see it. I think you simply don't "get" what this thread is all about. Or refuse it.

We are not discussing anything other then the fact that drop shooting 80 times in a set is beyond ridiculous. Yet you put forth arguments that have nothing really do with the discussion. Do you enjoy a set with 80 drop shots in it? I don't. Apparently majority doesn't either.

Does TS4 have severe reality flaws? Yes. No what? Let the tour go into a 80 drop shot a set "mode"?


@dsavbeast012
The game was never balanced. Since day one. This feeling in my opinion is fueled by novelty of the game. But it being new and undiscovered. Once time passes, people discover flaws and exploit them. This has nothing to do with Patch or Balancing updates. All the flaws and more were there since day one and there always will be. We at ITST always try and minimize their impact on our tour. This is what separates us from WT.

Solution? ....exactly what we do now and always did. An on going effort to prevent cheese and limit the flaws. Catch and ban cheaters. Run a fun and enjoyable tour. Every day, day in and day out.

[djarvik]

There are many things wrong with the game but as you said drops are rare so that why they are being picked on. Very easy.

yes, but dont you see that you are being biased? you are concentrating on 1 aspect of the gm (that just happens to hurt the majority of players on ITST) while ignoring the rarefied cheese that the majority uses itself

Last I checked, we on ITST. So what is wrong with that?