Top Spin 4 - Player Balancing Updates

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I agree with those saying that rallies can be really long now. Seems like even if you fail and hit a short ball you can still catch up and keep the rally going. It's really hard to finish the point off because the ball seems to move alot slower or something.

I also think that powershots are not as good as they used to, even if you hit a nice one the opponent can get to it alot of the time. Basically its like the game is more about trying to make your opponent make an UE rather than trying to hit a winner.

It's a step in the right direction in some ways, but it still needs alot more tweaking imo.

You read my mind exactly. The update is a huge plus, and definitely a change that was needed. 2k did a great job.

After the first day jitters, and getting to play the game a bit more extensively, there are a few changes I think would make the game perfect.





(1) Increase offense a little bit
Make the ball travel through the air a bit faster. Not too much, but an increase in ball speed is needed. It's a bit hard to hit winners now cause the ball seems to travel slower.


(2) Errors and Timing on groundstrokes
I love that errors were included, but I still think more errors are needed. From 1-100% stamina, "Too late" or "Too soon" shots should have a 30% chance of going in. They can still go in, but rarely, and I mean rarely. Once your stamina completely depletes, "too late/soon" shots should go out automatically, "Good shots" should have a 30% chance of going in (rarely), while "Perfect" shots would have the highest.


(3) Timing on return of serve
I think "too late/soon" returns should also have a 30% chance of going in. There needs to be return errors. If possible, could you completely remove "autoswing" on the return.


(4) Speed
Characters with 40/50 speed are still too fast. If you guys feel speed is fine the way it is, then can you make a slower character's stamina deplete faster on the run. This coupled with a more extensive error-stamina system would mean although lower speed characters are still fast, they would be closer to making errors once their stamina reaches zero. How fast your stamina depletes on the run would depend on your speed rating and how much distance you have to cover.

These 3 changes, imo, would greatly improve the foundation the new patch has set.
- Offense would be better. With the ball flying through the air faster, it would be easier to throw somone's timing off, put them in bad situations, and hit winners more consistenly.
- Defensive basliners can make someone miss. Their main goal now is too make sure your stamina drains before theirs. However they can still miss if their stamina drains as well.
- People can miss shots at 100% stamina now if they get "too late/soon". This way things wouldn't be so scripted where "everyone just waits to drain the other person's stamina first". No, you should still be able to miss at 100% stamina.

Imo these changes would make the game more dynamic. The patch is a huge step in the right direction. Only a few little tweaks and I think the game would be perfect.

[L Sanchez MD]

More return errors would definitely be good to see.

[djarvik]

Guys, remember, this is a "journey", not the end destination. Use this thread for what it is intended. Give structured feedback and you will make it easier for the next update.

Use pros/cons format and detail a bit.

[Neso007]

It´s almost impossible to hit winners with powerstrokes :-/ it is only possible by hitting a power slice......after the patch winners were made by slice or a perfect placed shot but not with a power shot (because its very hard to place them near the line...).. i think this schould be adjusted..what do you guys think ?

[nrmn]

It´s almost impossible to hit winners with powerstrokes :-/ it is only possible by hitting a power slice......after the patch winners were made by slice or a perfect placed shot but not with a power shot (because its very hard to place them near the line...).. i think this schould be adjusted..what do you guys think ?

I agree, the powershots are not as effective anymore.

One of the issues that needs to be worked on right now is the speed imo. It's kind of ridiculous that you can outrun the ball while going in the same direction, from the net to the baseline.

So do something about the speed, either the ball or the player, and it should probably be more fun to play.

[dsavbeast012]

You read my mind exactly. The update is a huge plus, and definitely a change that was needed. 2k did a great job.

After the first day jitters, and getting to play the game a bit more extensively, there are a few changes I think would make the game perfect.

(1) Increase offense a little bit
Make the ball travel through the air a bit faster. Not too much, but an increase in ball speed is needed. It's a bit hard to hit winners now cause the ball seems to travel slower.

(2) Errors and Timing on groundstrokes
I love that errors were included, but I still think more errors are needed. From 1-100% stamina, "Too late" or "Too soon" shots should have a 30% chance of going in. They can still go in, but rarely, and I mean rarely. Once your stamina completely depletes, "too late/soon" shots should go out automatically, "Good shots" should have a 30% chance of going in (rarely), while "Perfect" shots would have the highest.

(3) Timing on return of serve
I think "too late/soon" returns should also have a 30% chance of going in. There needs to be return errors. If possible, could you completely remove "autoswing" on the return.

These 3 changes, imo, would greatly improve the foundation the new patch has set.
- Offense would be better. With the ball flying through the air faster, it would be easier to throw somone's timing off, put them in bad situations, and hit winners more consistenly.
- Defensive basliners can make someone miss. Their main goal now is too make sure your stamina drains before theirs. However they can still miss if their stamina drains as well.
- People can miss shots at 100% stamina now if they get "too late/soon". This way things wouldn't be so scripted where "everyone just waits to drain the other person's stamina first". No, you should still be able to miss at 100% stamina.

Imo these changes would make the game more dynamic. The patch is a huge step in the right direction. Only a few little tweaks and I think the game would be perfect.

The only problem with this I think is that you'd see even more of a shift towards power players than you have already. I think ball speed is fine, but think that UEs should still be more prevalent, particularly w/ bad timing and low stamina.

Also another thing I'd like to add, the ability to hit those slice winners, particularly from a defensive position, should be toned down as well. Right now I'd have to say the slice shot is overpowered in comparison to the way it's used in real life, with the flat shot being a bit underpowered. I said this even before the balance update BTW, slice is one of the new go to moves.

[Puttu puttuu]

I must really say I'm loving the update... had my biggest ts4 session in a while today... really allows me to play defensively! Won most of my matches by forcing errors out of my opponents. Anyway very promising update... hope 2k can keep going in this direction... maybe a tiny tiny bit more errors and it will truly be perfect!

[MrMackNasty]

Pros-
-The angles seem to be cut down on good timing or worse.
-Unforced errors are obviously much much better.(Still not
quite enough).
-Returning serves seems a little better.
Cons-
-Power shots seem ineffective most the time.(At least when trying
to finish a point off).
-The slice is still too overpowered.
-Still can't take advantage of those super slow serves like it should
be in my opinion.
-Seems to be a movement bug when playing at the net.
-The rallies are even longer than before when you are playing
someone who is similiar to your skill level.
-Winners are very hard to hit sometimes unless you wrong foot
them completely. Its way to hard to hit a winner into the open
court.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

The only problem with this I think is that you'd see even more of a shift towards power players than you have already. I think ball speed is fine, but think that UEs should still be more prevalent, particularly w/ bad timing and low stamina.

Right now, imo, the rallies are better. People aren't just aiming to pull you out wide all the time, and the effectiveness of shots is random. This adds an unpredictability factor, and it's good for rallies. This is great, but there isn't enough fire power to hit through someone. Since shot effectiveness is random, how easy it is to take advantage of a point will be harder if players aren't hitting hard enough. The reason why points between 2 players of the same skill last longer is because the speed the ball travels has been lessened. I'm sure we all felt that our characters were weaker.

More errors are needed, but a more error extensive system alone will not solve things. All that would do is make characters with high speed and high stamina dominate, and every game will boil down to "Who's stamina runs out first".

By increasing ball speed, it will be easier for attackers to force people into defensive positions. Offensive baseliners use a lot of powerwed up shots to try and hit through their opponents. Therefore they use up a lot more stamina than most. If more errors are added without increasing ball speed, then an offensive basliner would be the weakest style by a long shot.

Now I'm not saying I want the ball speed to return back to the way it was. No. Before the patch offense was tooooo good cause, not only were the ridiculous angles on demand outragious, characters could hit 130mph forehands/backhands at ridiculous angles and down the line all the time. The new rallying random shot effectiveness approach is good imo. I'm saying that the ball speed just needs to be taken up a bit.

Cons-
-Power shots seem ineffective most the time.(At least when trying
to finish a point off).
-The slice is still too overpowered.
-Still can't take advantage of those super slow serves like it should
be in my opinion.
-Seems to be a movement bug when playing at the net.
-The rallies are even longer than before when you are playing
someone who is similiar to your skill level.
-Winners are very hard to hit sometimes unless you wrong foot
them completely. Its way to hard to hit a winner into the open
court.

What are your characters returning stats(fh/bh/rf)? My characters can take a whack at super slow serves now. 80fh 69bh 66fh, and 64fh 54bh 82rf diesel returner. You have to get perfect timing to capitalize on them though. If you charge up a flat shot fully, and get perfect timing, you can return those super slow serves down the line at 100mph. Or go with a fully charged topspin cross court. It feels good . That tactic was too effective.

I'm not sure about slicing yet. It has definitely been toned down. From my personal experience, I've faced people who just want to slice and dice, and I haven't had any trouble with them yet. They seem fine to me at least, or have I just not run into the right person yet? Time will tell.

I agree with everything else you said.

Another change I forgot to put

-Speed
Characters with 40/50 speed are still too fast.

[MrMackNasty]

-Speed
Characters with 40/50 speed are still too fast.

I completely agree there. Although it seems its easier to wrongfoot them now

[jayl0ve]

sucks that this had to happen right before the pro players tournament....I was soooooo ready to destroy everybody, but now I'm not so sure, not really confident at all....I've had to completely change the way I play the game and that kinda sux Power is a big part of tennis it's a shame that Slow and Boring seems to equate to Strategic and Intellectual or some s**t, around here.

I haven't lost since the patch took effect (haven't really played that much either..) I just think they went overboard with the neutering of power shots, it's just soooo slow now

A lot of rallies are just plain stupid, both of us just struggling to get to the ball for every shot, just barely getting there and hitting some poopy desperate shot to somehow keep the rally going...then one of us randomly hits the ball out. Wow, riveting stuff.

I wouldn't say the game's completely ruined or anything, I unfortunately think they need yet another patch to correct this one's few (but major) flaws. I haven't played the game in like 2 days, whereas before that I was playing every day, multiple times a day, so that's saying something...

[polakis]

After playing 100 quick matches on World Tour i have to say that the new patch is good but we have a big problem:

I only lose now from S&V players with drop shot artist or low volley special. They serve and straight they go to the net. And because its difficult to hit deadly angles anymore after the patch they have full advantage for the point. They drop it and they have 90% to win the point. You must try very hard to win them if the player is good. But its always the same and same points...This is not tennis. Its cheating

And also 50 speeders catch all the balls.2K fix this please. Its unrealistic

[SBR Ironik]

After playing 100 quick matches on World Tour i have to say that the new patch is good but we have a big problem:

I only lose now from S&V players with drop shot artist or low volley special. They serve and straight they go to the net. And because its difficult to hit deadly angles anymore after the patch they have full advantage for the point. They drop it and they have 90% to win the point. You must try very hard to win them if the player is good. But its always the same and same points...This is not tennis. Its cheating

Yeah but maybe, if they're good, they deserve to win ?
I have the feeling that before the patch S&V players were helpless against Baseliners.
Maybe we have to find a way to counter them ?
I haven't faced a good s&v player yet so ... Maybe you're right

And also 50 speeders catch all the balls.2K fix this please. Its unrealistic

I definitely agree with that.

[ike 0]

After playing 100 quick matches on World Tour i have to say that the new patch is good but we have a big problem:

I only lose now from S&V players with drop shot artist or low volley special. They serve and straight they go to the net. And because its difficult to hit deadly angles anymore after the patch they have full advantage for the point. They drop it and they have 90% to win the point. You must try very hard to win them if the player is good. But its always the same and same points...This is not tennis. Its cheating

And also 50 speeders catch all the balls.2K fix this please. Its unrealistic

I totally agree with that.Since the patch is out, a lot of players with "drop shot artist or low volley special" have been created.
It's guys who played only to win, not for fun, they play allways the same point. For me this is cheating.

[Rob ITST]

Do you guys try lobbing? If you can't pass the guy at net, there's a good chance he's standing really close.

I've played almost all S&V since the game came out, and I think it might be a bit too easy now too. It's hard to say though - we'll know after a while when people get used to playing against it.