Warm-ups (Xbox)

[Puttu puttuu]

@ Norberto

From the few matches that i have played you ,it seemed that you only hit powershots. You stamina was always much lower than mine ,alli had to do was just hang in there and wait for your bar to turn red.

Unless you learn to move your opponent round with control shots , I can't see you having the same success as in TS3.

TS4 doesnt suck... it's just you that does for now

[djarvik]

....and me!

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

Both Norberto and I thought it was fun so there's 2

For sure MUCH more than 50% of your serving games were: serve, return, crushing winner...

So what’s the difference with your wide serve then cross court for winner? It’s practically the same game play. The reason why I think your were out played is because its when i didn’t use the power shots that I won the important points, and in the end your wide serve got broken and broken again in the tiebreaker, you have to agree with that...

On this occasion a got the better of you but I dare say you will time and time again kick my ass...

Were you the best TS3 player? Maybe…Were you the best 90/40 TS3 player absolutely. I would think twice about any banning of stats just yet. i would hate to see a replica of the ts3 leadboard where the person with the best wide serve wins...

Devlish, I agree with you. I do have respect for Noberto as a competitor but I always said that he is only an outwide serve and amazing risker. With risk gone it is a different story.

I don't see the value or enjoyment from hitting outwide serves all the time and then following it up with a cross court - for me that is a desperate way to clinch a point and tons of people do it. Hitting serves down the tee are just a beneficial, especially in TS4.

Baghdad, you remember our last match? Did you hit A SINGLE non-outwide serve from the deuce side? I don't remeber a single one...

However, for me those serves are tough to deal with against SV players and super-power guys, otherwise a long topspin-or slice return to the middle of the court most times does the job to make it into the rally, you can't even compare the TS3 outwide serve with the TS4 one....

However, in the end I don't care that much if those extreme-power setups are allowed or not, I think it is way more fun to play this game with limited power, but all you guys know that in the end it is all about winning for me - the greatest fun...
Somehow I wasn't a fast started in any TS game, but eventhough I am not very good at the moment, I am pretty sure that I will find my way of being effective sooner or later (probably later ) and take this style to perfection, might be using a power char, might be something else, however, just in case it is going to be power game i go for, I can already hear people crying about the cheesy power-monkey Norberto H...

To be fair my main serve is down the tee - Puttu can vouch for that. Perhaps my tee serves were so darn fast and accurate that you didn't even realise I was ace'ing you? I get that a lot

As Puttu said, to be effective at this game you need to master control shots, Puttu is great at it and I am a small step behind him I would say.

On another general point, the Topspin Invasion / Monster Defense does have a significant advantage against non Topspin / Monster setups. So whilst players may think they are the bee's knee's in TS4 (being able to hit crazy angles and get every ball back) I would be interested to see how some players fair without it. Suddenly a seemingly good player becomes a very average player all of a sudden without it. Thats my opinion anyway.

The quality and skill is so much more powerful in other skill set-ups. Puttu's Soderling vs my custom Courier (and others) is evidence of that.

[Puttu puttuu]

I would like to play Anil without his monster defense/top spin invasion guy

[o Sinna o]

I wouldn't care to much about that Norberto didn't took the Skilllead from the Beginning and that some of you Guys are already in front of him.
It's not a Question of if Norberto has the Skills to perform everything important from the Game in a almost perfect way, I think it's more a Question of Time.

It's the same with many things in life like maths for example. Some Guys understand a formula earlier than others and this ends in a right Result. But the most Gyus have it what it takes to understand a Maths-Formula generally even if they need a lil bit longer.

The Question is only if you are willed to continue learning the Thing or if you tend to give it up and share your time with some other Game or Things.

I made the same mistake with TS3. But the thing was I never ha a Problem with Angles in TS3.

If I think about the Past and my Top Spin 1 Career I first had it more and more what it takes to be competitive against everybody after a half or one Year of consitent gaming. I learned more and more through the Players I met in this Game and at the end I was able to master everything on the highest Level.

Sure TS4 is a new Game and a new Case but it's the same mofugging Principle.

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

I wouldn't care to much about that Norberto didn't took the Skilllead from the Beginning and that some of you Guys are already in front of him.
It's not a Question of if Norberto has the Skills to perform everything important from the Game in a almost perfect way, I think it's more a Question of Time.

It's the same with many things in life like maths for example. Some Guys understand a formula earlier than others and this ends in a right Result. But the most Gyus have it what it takes to understand a Maths-Formula generally even if they need a lil bit longer.

The Question is only if you are willed to continue learning the Thing or if you tend to give it up and share your time with some other Game or Things.

I made the same mistake with TS3. But the thing was I never ha a Problem with Angles in TS3.

If I think about the Past and my Top Spin 1 Career I first had it more and more what it takes to be competitive against everybody after a half or one Year of consitent gaming. I learned more and more through the Players I met in this Game and at the end I was able to master everything on the highest Level.

Sure TS4 is a new Game and a new Case but it's the same mofugging Principle.

Did you just read my post and copy what I said and pass it off as your own

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14370&start=15

[o Sinna o]

I wouldn't care to much about that Norberto didn't took the Skilllead from the Beginning and that some of you Guys are already in front of him.
It's not a Question of if Norberto has the Skills to perform everything important from the Game in a almost perfect way, I think it's more a Question of Time.

It's the same with many things in life like maths for example. Some Guys understand a formula earlier than others and this ends in a right Result. But the most Gyus have it what it takes to understand a Maths-Formula generally even if they need a lil bit longer.

The Question is only if you are willed to continue learning the Thing or if you tend to give it up and share your time with some other Game or Things.

I made the same mistake with TS3. But the thing was I never ha a Problem with Angles in TS3.

If I think about the Past and my Top Spin 1 Career I first had it more and more what it takes to be competitive against everybody after a half or one Year of consitent gaming. I learned more and more through the Players I met in this Game and at the end I was able to master everything on the highest Level.

Sure TS4 is a new Game and a new Case but it's the same mofugging Principle.

Did you just read my post and copy what I said and pass it off as your own

http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14370&start=15

No I didn't but now I did.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Yeah, we need rules. I'm not against big servers, no. The problem with TS4 is that it allows you to have a big serve, AND HUGE STROKES. The 1-2 punch is already good enough, but then now you have to deal with a big server who has a 90fh? It's such a brainless setup.

That's why we need these rules, http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14366 , or else we're gonna keep having many complaints and many people are gonna start leaving.

I'm not against a big serve, but power over 80 should not have good strokes, period. The more power you have, the worst your strokes should be. I played djarvik with my big server who fit those rules. I'm actually a terrible server, so I'm in on way a good judge. The thing is if you don't use your serve effectively, you will lose. Now you really have to make use of that 1-2 punch even better. You can't rely on that crutch 90+fh braindead winner anymore. You have like an 80% chance of losing rallies. You have the power and serve, but in return you give up your ability to keep up with baseliners.

Something needs to be done about the coach that gives topspin invasion and monster defense. The problem with this coach is that she gives too much. She not only gives topspin invasion, which I have no problem with, but monster defense too .

I used those rules above and created this with that same coach.

fh 83
bh 73
srv 73
vol 49
pw 69
sta 79
spe 66
rf 58
Top spin invasion, monster defense.

The character fits within those rules, but there are still problems. This is the most broken coach I have ever seen in the game, and I'm thinking about adding a ban for that coach in that thread. Hopefully people agree.

Top spin invasion: The more you use topspin shots during a rally, the more efficient they beome.
Monster Defense: Play more precise shots and make less errors when you are trailing

The thing with monster defense is that it lessens errors and your shots are more precise when you are trailing. Top spin invasion already makes your shots more precise and is hard to deal with alone, but then monster defense improves it. Giving you the ability to make impossible shots and angles on demand. Another problem is that monster defense improves your shots when you are trailing, so that applies to your service games AND YOUR OPPONENTS SERVICE GAMES.
Wait, so you already have hard to deal with precise shots from topspin invasion, just like slice invasion. Then you have monster defense which reduces your errors and makes your shots more precise as well, adding even more precision to your already precise topspin invasion shots, when you are trailing. When you are trailing? As in trailing during your game only? No, when you are trailing in general. That, imo, is broken.

I created that character above a while back, and my oh my I now see why 98% of WT is using this setup. It's like the 90+ pw 90+fh 90+srv combo. It's so easy and effective to use. Even though he is within the rules, it felt like I was cheating. I'm already good enough when at neutral, and up in games, but then I get better when I'm trailing. Regardless of who is serving? Really? That's too good.
I personally would like to see a ban on this coach, Pei Jing Quah. Those two skills are too much of a crutch when used together.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

To be fair my main serve is down the tee - Puttu can vouch for that. Perhaps my tee serves were so darn fast and accurate that you didn't even realise I was ace'ing you? I get that a lot

As Puttu said, to be effective at this game you need to master control shots, Puttu is great at it and I am a small step behind him I would say.

On another general point, the Topspin Invasion / Monster Defense does have a significant advantage against non Topspin / Monster setups. So whilst players may think they are the bee's knee's in TS4 (being able to hit crazy angles and get every ball back) I would be interested to see how some players fair without it. Suddenly a seemingly good player becomes a very average player all of a sudden without it. Thats my opinion anyway.

The quality and skill is so much more powerful in other skill set-ups. Puttu's Soderling vs my custom Courier (and others) is evidence of that.

Exactly, thank you baghdad. I don't mind topspin invasion, or monster defense, but together it's too much. They are too much of a crutch. You have a lot of average/bad players who get such a huge boost from that coach, and she ends up making them look better than they really are.

Lol, good to know that I'm not the only one who realized it. That's why I hate playing WT so damn much, and I'm so sorry for bothering you guys on my list soo much. I've reached my limit of people crutching it out with topspin invasion/monster defense, or the usual 90fh 90srv 90 pw.

I don't mind playing them, but at times I just want to face a realistic player for once.

[Puttu puttuu]

if you want to play someone with a nice balanced stats ! Add me ! I am on the lookout for people who have a "sim" approach to the game .

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

This isn't a warm up match, but just played Xohrum in the 1st round of US clay court championship. His character

fh 89
bh 79
srv 72
vol 39
pw 79
sta 85
spe 60
rf 47
topspin invasion, monster defense

Mine
fh 79
bh 62
srv 70
vol 53
pw 67
sta 69
spe 68
rf 72
shot counter, return serve counter

I lost 6-3 6-2

Lol, djarvik/cro/slicer/fedfan/etc when are you mods/admins planning on putting forward a sim tour? This is starting to look like WT all over again.

[Coolhand Texas]

Whats wrong with his setup? It looks pretty good to me, especially since Devilish is playing a guy with a 100 power.

[Hollaa Itz Mike]

This isn't a warm up match, but just played Xohrum in the 1st round of US clay court championship. His character

fh 89
bh 79
srv 72
vol 39
pw 79
sta 85
spe 60
rf 47
topspin invasion, monster defense

Mine
fh 79
bh 62
srv 70
vol 53
pw 67
sta 69
spe 68
rf 72
shot counter, return serve counter

I lost 6-3 6-2

Lol, djarvik/cro/slicer/fedfan/etc when are you mods/admins planning on putting forward a sim tour? This is starting to look like WT all over again.

hawkeye i am sorry but... he has 72 on serve and 79 on power...how is that cheesy?

[Mack2300]

I'm trying to unlock all the 6 gold coaches I have for one of my players at the moment. I have 2 unlocked so far but I think I can safely say already that the topspin invasion/monster defense coach is head and shoulders above the others alright. Topspin invasion is just such a key trait to have considering that is the rally shot used most often and it does enable you to create some wicked angles that you wouldn't be able to make without it.
I also agree that it will be control shots that will decide the best ITST players. I suck at them at the moment. I find I can time them pretty well offline but in an online match my timing sucks. It is very unforgiving too coz if you do mistime it, you have pretty much lost the point so it is so risky. Speaking of control shots, is it possible to hit control shot returns? Every time I attempt one, "autoswing" happens instead but it is probably just my horrid timing.
Oh and I think ultra-power bashers may be a thing of the past. TS4 doesn't seem to reward power play as easily as TS3 did. Angles and patience are the way to go in TS4 it seems

[VillaJ100]

Most of my returns are control shots. If you get it "perfect" then very occasionally you can hit a return like a perfect TS3 double-risk return. I say perfect as i have hit many perfect returns without this effecct, i think it relies on you hitting perfect timing, aiming the right way, being in the right position and pobably the opponent hitting a perfect serve. Its a great feeling though, the strings really crack. I hit one against fedfan the other day to get a break, i was going 'WOOOO' for about 10 seconds