Possible solution to the Big serve/power combo

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I know you guys want us to give our impressions in the Warm up threads, so I'd first like to say I'm sorry for creating this, but I just wanted everyone to see it. Rather than it being posted in the xbox section only.

Anyway, I, personally, find that World tour is enough to know that the big serve/power/strokes combo is too good. I beat guys like these all the time, but once you run into a good player then you see just how ridiculous things can get, especially when you're character is realistic and not a mutant as well.

I made a post earlier about how a percentage-like system could fix things. For those of you who might have missed it, here it is http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=187505&highlight=#187505.

I decided to use that same method on the other pros, in other to find a rule that could be applied to the customs. Surprisingly I found similarities between power/strokes, and came up with 3 simple rules that could, hopefully, make things a tad bit more realistic. The percentage system was done using a medium of 545 points.


RULES
You can only have a max of 14 in the Offensive Baseline Stat.

The coach Pei Jing Quah (Topspin invasion, Monster Defense) is banned.

1) Customs with a power rating of 69 points or less.
You can create any type of player you want, as long as your power stat is 69 points or less.

2)Customs with a power rating between 70 - 79 points
Your strokes (backhand/forehand) cannot surpass 79 points.

3)Customs with a power rating of 80 points or more
Your storkes (backhand/forehand) cannot surpass 69 points.


All pros don't have the same amount of points, so after using the percentage method, I did some rounding here and there and came up with the similarities between pow/strokes.

With these rules, you can create a multitude of playstyles. Except this time the custom characters will have the same constraints on them that were placed on the pros, in hopes of making things more balanced for those who want a slightly more realistic tour.

This is a solution that can be applied NOW. Rather than hope on the dream that 2k will bring more money out of their pockets to hire people to test out possible solutions that can reduce the big power/srv/strokes combo and release it in a patch. I personally don't see 2k fixing anything beyond minor bugs. Any changes affecting the system/coaches/etc will mostly likely be in TS5.

These rules aren't absolute, and changes might have to be made. Infact one style could end up being dominant. I don't know. I just tried to come up with something that eliminated a very powerful style, while at the same thing still giving players the ability to create multiple playstyles.

What do you guys think?

[Rob ITST]

I think it would be easier to just limit the OFB level. Something like 15 maybe. You could have high power/serve, or high power/strokes, but not high power/serve/strokes.

I still think it's too early to really speculate though, especially if a patch is indeed coming.

[ItaStallion]

Hawkeye no offense but to make a player like that you can have a max of 9 OFF

if you choose the right coaches so im going to make my guy a defensive baseliner when i don't want him to be?

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I think it would be easier to just limit the OFB level. Something like 15 maybe. You could have high power/serve, or high power/strokes, but not high power/serve/strokes.

I still think it's too early to really speculate though, especially if a patch is indeed coming.

I would love for a patch that fixes the game, but there is no way of knowing if the patch is just to fix bugs/glitches, or actually change things within the system (point distribution, coaches, etc)

Yes, but the problem is that once you go that high up on OFB, you're going to have big serve, huge power, and huge strokes. This is a design flaw.

The most effective way, imo, would be to put limits on power and strokes. This is what makes the pros so balanced. Even though most of them have more points than customs, you don't see 80+ power with 80+ strokes with 80+ serve. That's why I specifically used the percentage system based on the pros.

[ItaStallion]

just tested out your rules and its extremely hard it seems to make players that fall into the rules you have set... Due to coach attributes

[Rob ITST]

That's the problem I saw with it. The way you create your characters, it's hard to find the right combination that will result in specific numbers on the stats.

If there's ever going to be any rule, for the normal tour or a sim tour, it's going to have to be very, very simple.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Hawkeye no offense but to make a player like that you can have a max of 9 OFF

if you choose the right coaches so im going to make my guy a defensive baseliner when i don't want him to be?

None taken. I created this thread for discussion.

What do you mean by "you're going to make your guy a defensive baseliner when you don't want him"?

You can create offensive baseliner who don't have that 80+ pw/srv/strokes.

Agassi and Djokovic are deadly from the baseline. Agassi has 560 points, and Djokovic has 555 pts. Using the percentage system and the 545 pt medium for customs/

Custom Agassi:
fh 88.5
bh 78.8
srv 55.4
pw 66.2

Custom Djokovic
fh 81.5
bh 76.6
srv 60.9
pw 72.6

You can have high strokes, with low power and still be deadly at the baseline. This is also where skills come in.

just tested out your rules and its extremely hard it seems to make players that fall into the rules you have set... Due to coach attributes

Yeah things won't fit point for point. This was just a "These rules could help put us in a more balanced direction". As long as the characters are pretty close, then they should be fine. Now, what pretty close means is something that will have to be defined by the community.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

That's the problem I saw with it. The way you create your characters, it's hard to find the right combination that will result in specific numbers on the stats.

If there's ever going to be any rule, for the normal tour or a sim tour, it's going to have to be very, very simple.

That's why the rule is for power and strokes. Not serve, power, and strokes. This is where the serve and volley stat comes in. If you feel like you might go over, then you can put in that. As long as things are close to the rules, which will need a better defintion, and not overboard then the characters will be fine.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

You can use defensive baseliner, and serve and volley as balancing stats. Def baseline doesn't give that much power. Srv&Volley doesn't give power as well.

Testing will still be needed, as I haven't tested these rules.

[ItaStallion]

Offensive Baseliner has always dominate top spin and i believe it always will...

i think all we could do at most is again limit power to 80 at worst case scenario

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Offensive Baseliner has always dominate top spin and i believe it always will...

i think all we could do at most is again limit power to 80 at worst case scenario

I thought of that too, but you'll just end up with a "lite" version of the current system. 80pw 90fh 85bh 90 srv. It's the same problem all over again.
This is why Roddick has a 71 fh, and 61 bh, because when your srv and pw stats are so high any more points in strokes is simply overkill.

I personally still want characters that have those 90srv & 90pws stats to exist. Yes, a huge serve can be a weapon, but this time they won't have the strokes to follow suit.

[KDZaster]

So why not just have the ITST tour be Pros Only? Deep roster and Tons of unique skills means a fair and balanced ITST tour.

I dont see why it has to be custom chsrs only, this isnt TS3 w/ only 4 or 5 viable characters.

[ItaStallion]

if you could recreate me a roddick in custom players please try.....

its impossible his speed and reflex stat are very good for a guy with such high power and serve and you are unable to do this is in a custom character or else i would have already.

I Blame 2k for this problem im very disappionted in the characters level up system so to say.

i want high reflex,speed,power and serve but am unable to do this with the current system.

so it seems to me its the level up system that technically needs to be changed or else we can't make the exact custom character we want.

[ANILTJE]

I agree with Rob. If there is going to be something it needs to be simple.

The most simple way is to have for example level 15 or only silver coaches.

[GOA MASTER MDMA]

or just playing completly without the coaches ???