the right to bear arms.......

by **emate007** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 13:38

I'll just confuse the issue a little more here by saying - until the US media stops churning out action movies/shows, crime drama movies/shows, and even some comedies with obscene amounts of violence, it will always be a part of US culture and legislation. What we see on TV and in movies impacts us more than most people realize, and everybody is so used to seeing people being shot it's not dramatic or important anymore. Anyone who's watched American TV will sooner yawn than exclaim in surprise or disgust at the slaughter of an entire room full of office workers.

That's a big reason why guns aren't really criticized at all here, people see them almost every day as soon as they turn on the tv.

by **coke4** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:06

TomBs wrote:
Coolhand Texas wrote:
jayl0ve wrote:I think people would just be killing each other with other weapons if there were no guns.

Honestly I'm kinda apathetic on the subject because it is something that, like I said, is never going to change.

plus if you took away guns from legal citizens then the guys who have guns are the guys who want to harm other people.

Im all for the right to bear arms!

@jay: It would be way more difficult..

@Coolhand: Partially agree. Sure the larger criminals will have access to guns, but (at least over here) it's the sector of criminality where they'll just shoot each other. It's where the big money is, no need for them to involve 'normal' citizens.

Where you gain most is by taking away guns from people that really won't have easy access to getting them, but commit smaller crimes where normal people are involved, like robberies. Sure they'll be using another weapon, but a knife or bat is way less threatening than a gun, and way less lethal, as one has to do quite a bit more than just pull the trigger to kill someone. This not only reduces the level of injuries, but it makes the step to commit a small crime larger due to the lack of access to the most dangerous weapon.

Completely agree with you tom.
Coolhand, here in Ireland we have started to have a lot of gangland shootings, which is a shame, however they are, most of the time, only gangland shootings. There is the odd person killed who is mistaken for someone in a gang shot, but we very rarely have members of the public safe.
You have got to ask yourself, is you having a gun really going to protect you, or put you and others in more danger. Not only can you potentially hurt someone innocent, put if a gang breaks onto your house, all of whom have guns, are you really safer having a gun, as the gun makes you more of a threat which would make them more inclined to hurt you, while if they see you as unarmed they will not feel threatened and more likely not seriously hurt you.

by **VillaJ100** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:41

Just a thought, could the average american get hold of automatic weapons? i would have thought something like a M4 would cost thousands of dollars

by **TomBs** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:54

by **ILuvBillVal** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 15:12

The whole problem is the constitution was established in a different age where the country was nothing like it is today. The people back then were harder working and simpler, and merely wanted to be able to protect themselves from raids from the natives and things of that nature, because law enforcement was pretty much non existent. These days everyone takes those same ideals and tries to justify their premise and necessity but all it's really doing is gradually contributing to the cluster **** this country has become.

by **djarvik** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 15:40

I guess I don't agree with most of you on this one. I think you are confusing a few things. To me, if the guns are being manufactured - then they should be available and legal to won, for anyone.

I am for a more strict laws of obtaining a gun, but the thought that "authorities" only should have access to guns sickens me.

I live in Brooklyn for over 10 years. Most people around the world think Brooklyn is a battle ground. Which furthest from truth. We don't have gun fights around every corner, in fact we don't have them at all! It is mostly a gang related shooting that is over in 1 minute and it always happened in same 2-3 part of Brooklyn, in fact, same 2-3 streets! ...even blocks!

This whole thread is paining US in such a light that simply untruthful. You have to realize how many people live here....the stats of gun crimes per capita are high, but nowhere near of some other counties and very close to yet others. And that is all with a big history and following of gun ownership.

Do you have the stats of how many of the gun casualties where the intruders? ....how many crimes where stopped at tracks because of the legal gun owing citizens? .... how many crimes are being cut at the root because of the realization of the owner may be having a fire arm?

Did you know that UK is actually has a higher overall crime rate? ....US has a lower per capita crime rate and it is going down EVERY year.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita

When guns are not available, people will starts punching each other.

Do you have stats of unique gun crimes vs unique gun owners? What percentage of people actually own guns and what percentage of that is involved in crimes? ..... you generalize, and that is not fair.

It is very easy to judge when all you have is the internet propaganda and Hollywood movies. People will kill each other with ball-point pens.

I owned fire arms since 16 years of age. I am with both arms FOR! And I lived in 3 different countries for significant amount of time.

Want to stop guns? .... stop manufacturing them, all together. As long as guns are being manufactured - I will own one.

BTW - you can have automatic guns in US. It varies state by state, but you can. Silencer is the only thing you cannot own.

by **Moralspain** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:45

djarvik wrote:I
Did you know that UK is actually has a higher overall crime rate? ....US has a lower per capita crime rate and it is going down EVERY year.
When guns are not available, people will starts punching each other.

Want to stop guns? .... stop manufacturing them, all together. As long as guns are being manufactured - I will own one.

I still don't understand why in the USA you have that necessity and we don't where's the difference?
a loaded gun is dangerous itself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTzMx5EcvKA

by **djarvik** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:55

It's not a necessity Xavi, its a choice, a will. People have guns not out of necessity, but out of their own desire to have them.

If we speak of necessity, then there are sooo many things that are not necessary and cause harm to us.

A loaded gun on safety is not dangerous. Yes, sometimes, sometimes a gun will discharge regardless - but that is defect of the gun issue. There VERY little of these happening. In fact, you are more likely to get hit by a car that die from an accidental discharge.

I think we should be more worried how many people die on the roads, then from legal, registered, accidental gun wounds.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the situation is perfect. I am saying there is no "problem" as it is being presented in this thread. The "problem" doesn't exist.

by **djarvik** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:13

I just want to add that I am fore a stricter gun laws. More training, screening before issuing licenses. I am for dismembering a gun to transport. But I don't think no one has a right to tell a person what to do in his own household. Just make sure that the person is qualified to own a firearms and that he has to reapply for a licenses every so often, to confirm all of the above.

Violators should be punished, severely.

Other then that - melt down all existing guns, stop production.

by **beltic caldy** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:18

Now we're talking!!!

Al, some interesting points - don't agree with some, but this is a forum and let the discussion continue!!

Your point about the UK having a higher overall crime rate interests me - will check but struggle to see how that can be - and in any event, it's really gun-crime I was talking about.

Also - you say that if guns are being manufactured, then you want one - find it hard not to disagree with that - crystal meth is being manufactured up and down the country, but I have no desire to own that - facetious argument I'll grant you, but just because something is available....?

I don't have all the stats at my fingertips, but I want to be clear about one aspect of this - I'm not anti-american in the slightest - I'm anti-anti-humanist legislation and that stuff is simply out of date and no longer applies - in my opinion. Like yourself, I have lived in several countries over the years, I've also owned a rifle, and a shotgun. The reality is very very simple, without any stats or numbers - if there's a gun in a home, safety on or not, then the risk/chance/likelihood of death is dramatically increased.

Also, you mention that gun ownership/crime per capita in America is comparable to some other countries - which countries man? I'm talking about non-war-torn countries - not African states, or middle-eastern countries in conflict. And from those numbers, the evidence speaks very very clearly for itself - more than twice as many people die in America every year (yes, the numbers are falling, every year for the last 8/10 years or so) than every other (non conflict-ridden) country in the world.

To me, it's quite alarming when intelligent, well-travelled, well-read people as yourself don't actually see an 8 year-old kid dying, and the circumstances that made that possible as being a problem - maybe you feel attacked - didn't mean for that to be the case.

Civilian gun ownership is simply not defensible from any perspective as far as I'm concerned but I seriously don't want to cause offence with any opinion put forward.

by **VillaJ100** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:19

can people with a criminal reord get a gun? or mental problems? Obviously i mean a record for say DUI and not armed robbery lol.

by **KINAMINAJ** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:22

djarvik wrote:.

I think we should be more worried how many people die on the roads, then from legal, registered, accidental gun wounds.

You said what I have been thinking since I have been viewing this thread.......this is one of those amendments where you have people arguing for both sides.......I do not see anything wrong with people doing what they have to do to protect themselves. I mean I am not condoning walking around with a gun but this is a crazy world and I believe the laws should evolve around the now instead of the past..... I don't think manufacturing guns are the problem because if it was not a gun it would be some other instrument causing all of the destruction.......

p.s. I do not believe that bearing arms in the U.S. is a major problem. there is a war on women and children in the U.S. and i want them to do something about that damn amber alert system........ but who am I

by **coke4** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:45

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

As you can see from this USA has the highest gun murder of all developed countries.

by **Moralspain** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 18:57

coke4 wrote:http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

As you can see from this USA has the highest gun murder of all developed countries.

obviously, more guns more dead

by **beltic caldy** » Sat, 08 Jan 2011 19:16

VillaJ100 wrote:can people with a criminal reord get a gun? or mental problems? Obviously i mean a record for say DUI and not armed robbery lol.

I own a copy of Bewitched 'C'est La Vie' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSj0DZ0Vcm8) - and they let me have a rifle.

Nuff said ; )

the right to bear arms.......

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