anyone for a glass of milk?

[beltic caldy]

Hey Jesse! Thank you for considered reply man - am a little tired right now...just back from a big hike - you raise some very interesting questions, and delighted to hear from ya!

Will reply properly later/tomorrow - food for thought : )

rich

Many apologies Slicer...and indeed Jesse!!!! I was v v v tired and responding to...well, no excuses - just sorry

[Q. Reese]

good to hear from ya Q and nice one! Animal protein, be it from milk or meat....well, have a look at the video at the start of this link : )

all best

I am watching it now. Thanks for the link. It seems to be very interesting. I love the research into the presentation. The guy knows his stuff and am looking forward to learn from the vid!

[beltic caldy]

all good man - check this out!

(link below image for full-size pic)



http://www.mediapeta.com/peta/Images/Global/peta_infographic-truthabouteating.jpg?c=pfs


i don't necessarily like this kind of, almost...scare-tactic....or gross-out tactic....but the info is certainly factual....and some of the comparison's are pretty striking - take a minute to check them out

[beltic caldy]

good to hear from ya Q and nice one! Animal protein, be it from milk or meat....well, have a look at the video at the start of this link : )

all best

I am watching it now. Thanks for the link. It seems to be very interesting. I love the research into the presentation. The guy knows his stuff and am looking forward to learn from the vid!

i'd be interested in your perspective having watched the video bro - let me know!!!

[jayl0ve]

No offense but that poster is why people make fun of PETA.

Heavy-handed scare tactics?? Um no thanks.

"Eating meat is like eating poop!"

HAHAHAHA!! BRING ON THE TURDS THEN.

[beltic caldy]

Hmmmm....you're ok with a little faecal ingestion!!?! Hey, I was eating meat long enough - didn't do me any harm....or I didn't get food poisoning in any event.....harm over the long term from animal protein is another matter entirely.

I find the environmental comparisons and implications interesting tho - what do you think from that angle?

[Vieira151]

I can see the point made in the poster. But uhm, the point in animals is to be eaten Even us man, we just grew out of it, with our 'weapons' and all that That's basically why we are top of the food chain, that and we hunted all possible predators bigger than us to extinction(<-- I don't agree with that, animals should be killed for food and other resources, like leather etc)

PS the amount we eat nowadays is insane

[beltic caldy]

I can see the point made in the poster. But uhm, the point in animals is to be eaten

not sure I understand you here bro - how do you mean? I fear we may be wandering into religious or pre-ordained thinking here, but please elaborate? Isn't the point of any living creature merely to survive and seek expression of survival?

[jayl0ve]

Not in the overall scheme of things, no. I'm not religious at all but every organism here has a 'place' and a 'reason'.

What about sharks or tigers who have to eat like a hundred pounds of meat every day to survive?? Are they breaking some kind of unwritten rule (that being 'thou shall not eat flesh' I guess)?? What about all the frickin thousands of other carnivores out there in the animal kingdom that literally feast on blood and guts every day?? Also on the flip side, some animals just seem to be put here to be EATEN (and in the animal kingdom, EATEN ALIVE) because they are so goddamn stupid (Cows, mice, antelope, chickens, etc).

Don't say animals have 'always been doing that' because we have ALWAYS been a meat-eating people (in civilizations where there was meat to be had/agriculture)!

[beltic caldy]

Lol!! Deep breaths bro, no need for ire : )

Assigning a place and/or reason to animals/organisms is, to my mind a very arbitrary consideration, do you not think? If cows are 'for eating', then what are gold-fish 'for', or koala bears, or cockroaches? Horse-meat is consumed by humans in France, while dogmeat is eaten in Korea - are we thus to argue, speciously about 'the purpose' of those creatures?

The fact that lions/tigers and other 'lower' (from a sentience angle) creatures are still dominated by their instincts hardly serves as intelligent rationale for humans to behave likewise.....or does it?

[beltic caldy]

Oh, and I'm genuinely interested in your idea that 'we have always been meat eaters' man - what's your source on this?

[Vieira151]

Okay, looking at a general, basic view of things. And also any mention to humans references your average joe...

Also, I'm not religious


"The point of any living creature is to survive" Yes, that is true(maybe i worded my last post a bit wrong). That involves avoiding means of death(disease, being munched on,famine etc). The main way to survive, is to eat(or drink if you will ), as it is an effective way of energy consumption(the reason we are getting fatter now is we can harvest animals like we can plants, as opposed to going out and hunting them. This is giving us high Net energy consumption, as we only have to go buy some food).

We humans are omnivorous, meaning we have developed to eat meat/other animals as well as plants. So really, that should mean for optimum health a mixture of both should be necessary(whether it is or not, i dont know. its just the principle ).

And that means we should really be eating meat, which leads to... Because there are carnivores and omnivores, there needs to be animals that are to be eaten. Meaning basically, animals are meant to be eaten. The point in their lives are to survive, and continue the species, but even that is just to allow them to be eaten in the future(survival of the fittest et al)


Now, if we come back to nowadays, we are free to do what we want, because we have made almost all predators bigger and better than us (unless you wanna go for a swim...) extinct. Which completely **** up the whole system(which i'm sure you've probably heard things about, "we're ruining the world. oh noes!")

No we can basically harvest whatever we want, giving the animals no other real point(well, animals like cows, sheep, pigs) but to be eaten, 'cause we are keeping them alive for them until we need a munch.

EDIT: Sorry, taken a long time to think and write. ive probs got a few things wrong, i cant remember somethings

[jayl0ve]

I agree it does seem arbitrary to just say that an animal is 'for something maybe that is the wrong way to put it. But many carnivores subsist largely on one or two 'prey' animals that often serve little other purpose than pooping and being eaten by the predator animals. I'm not saying we can decide what certain animals are 'for' but millions of years of evolution and competition have kinda worked it out for us....

Tigers couldn't survive on a diet other than the one they live on so I don't know what your point is on that....it has nothing to do with being unable to control their instincts, it's their physiology, they require incredibly large amounts of protein and uhh.....grains aren't gonna do it for a tiger. Perhaps they should just go to the supermarket for some tofu though. 'Cruelty' free tigers!


What's your source that people haven't always been meat eaters where meat was readily available (which is what I specified). Yes I'm aware that certain civilizations subsisted largely on grains but I cannot think of one 100% vegetarian civilization. Hindu and Buddhist populations don't count.

[beltic caldy]

Hmmm, some interesting thoughts and I'd say I agree with quite a few - you, along with many others seem to make a 'leap' I don't necessarily want to take, however : )

You state that we have developed to be omniverous and thus, in keeping with that development consume both animals and plants? Is the breakdown 50/50 or, say, 60/40....or maybe 90/10 - meat/plant? From a paleontology, evolutionary perspective, human physiology has developed, yes - for what all evidence suggests is a majority plant diet. Our dentition is an important evidence-set but so also, more critically is how our gastrointestinal tracts compare to 'older' carnivores, such as lions and tigers.

I wonder why so many of us assume that just because we eat so much meat now, and in the last few hundred years, that it has always been thus......practically all of the evidence suggests otherwise.....what say thee to this!?

[jayl0ve]

Well what have thou to say about Inuits who survive mainly on whale blubber and fermented fish heads and no vegetables and no fruits and ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT and have been loving it for like thousands of years??

I think if you leave ethnicity/DNA out of the question then you are leaving a lot out of it...what about Native Americans who survived largely on bison?? They were doing that much longer ago than a few hundred years and they were doing just fine.

I actually think people in general should eat LESS meat, that is very good advice IMO...I just don't think we are made to live on zero animal protein, sorry. Vegetarianism is livable, veganism seems just cruel and unusual to me.