AO Tennis

[cnelson575]

This is apparently the first trailer for the Tennis game Big Ant was working on. It is coming out in January! Two proper console tennis games now coming in 2018!!

Here is the link for the trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbVEk5Q9ixY

[kenos]

And they both look awful, yay!

[latouur]

Looks horrible as well... We're fu****

[Fez]

Why are so many people saying they look awful? How can u really tell? Explain, Kenos. What, the movement looks clunky?

[kenos]

Why are so many people saying they look awful? How can u really tell? Explain, Kenos. What, the movement looks clunky?

Players' characterization is messy since Top Spin 4 and barely deals with the looks - by now it's all about showing licensed stuff.
The AO sponsored title is the perfect example, showing an amateurish, badly rendered version of Rafael Nadal serving in a way which isn't his. Developers stopped caring about trademark moves, the key of "reproducing" tennis and its players along with ball physics, and the outcome is that someone might recognize Goffin and Isner by how tall they are, otherwise the animation repertoire is so limited and scripted that they may also be another couple of players. Then of course everyone is free to buy this stuff anyway, but let's face it: the only reason is playing something up to date, in terms of licences and graphics, yet quality is another thing.

[Fez]

So, you think it sux cuz the animations are innaccurate? But who cares about that if the game is good? Imagine a tennis game with the gameplay we all want, yet with innaccurate anims. That would be great right? To me, anims are a mere bonus, hardly a barometer for measuring the success of a game. But perhaps I misunderstand you...

[kenos]

So, you think it sux cuz the animations are innaccurate? But who cares about that if the game is good? Imagine a tennis game with the gameplay we all want, yet with innaccurate anims. That would be great right? To me, anims are a mere bonus, hardly a barometer for measuring the success of a game. But perhaps I misunderstand you...

I think that all sports videogames have to focus on the key characteristics of each discipline, for tennis gestures and ball physics are the things that determine the way rallies are played. Animations make the style of every single player, therefore they are part of the gameplay; otherwise what's the point of having licenses? Dressing Monfils with the right outfit? That for me is a bonus, but unfortunately it seems to be the core of these new titles. It reminds me of the FIFA chapters during the early Oughties: bad gameplay but tons of licences. Luckily the competition with Winning Eleven/Pro Evolution Soccer forced them to raise the bar, improving their way of looking at football, here instead you hardly see a point.

[Fez]

but you are equating anims with gameplay. it isn't. gameplay is ball physics, movement physics, controller dynamics, tempos, ability or inability to exploit game weaknesses, etc. An animation is simply a stylization. I care very little about how much nadal bends his knee on a serve and whether or not he bends his knee that much irl. but u are entitled to your values. Again, to put animations in the "gameplay" folder isn't correct.

[kenos]

I stress the importance of animations simply because shot mechanics are what players build and improve during their career to express their own game according to their strenghts. Tennis, like every discipline, has its peculiarities and what you call stylization - like it is just some kind of aesthetic detail - makes Federer different from Wawrinka, Nadal from Verdasco and so on. Ultimately, it belongs to gameplay because it's part of the "movement physics" you mentioned above.
In football games EA and Konami make a song and dance about every new type of dribbling or tackle they add to the latest titles since it makes a difference between stars and ordinary players in influencing their teams' game. Roster in tennis titles is way more limited so one might think that this gives the developers more time to dedicate to each character... But it doesn't seem to be the case: Nadal's serve is totally wrong, not just "how the knee bends". And he's the starring player on cover! Then again, you're free to purchase and enjoy both games, accordingly to your priorities. On the contrary, I find hard to believe that such flaws can hide an incredible gameplay; more likely they simply reveal the mediocrity of the whole.

[Fez]

Well, Full Ace is a case in point. Anims are weak, but its catching on, a tour starting. Because, generally speaking, the gameplay is good. If anims were so intrinsically part of gameplay then....well, by that measure, FA would totally suck. But it doesn't.

[kenos]

Full Ace doesn't play in the same league of these titles... Luckily. For a simple reason: unlike that stuff, FA can improve massively because there is an actual dialogue between the developers and the players: kschoice is available to question his own perspective of how tennis works and listens to people accordingly - as one can see in the thread below. Barring unforeseen setbacks, this attitude can only lead to quality and honestly it's the only way a tennis game should be made. Otherwise you will see people brandishing the passion they don't have - e.g. that AO tennis video, astonishingly dumb - developing a game over a discipline they know little about.

[Cro Morgan]

In their defense, you (and most everyone else) has no idea what transpires behind the scenes, who the developers talk to, confer with, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

[kenos]

In FA's case, as a potential tester (and consumer), I can see what the debate leads to: improvements.
In the other two cases they might have gathered professionals, coaches and so on, but if the outcome is average at best it means that those debates, in spite of the superior competence they tried to absorb, didn't serve their work well for many reasons I for sure ignore.

[C4iLL]

Kenos is right: these tennis games are too much focused on official names, licenses and superficial stuff instead of on ball physics, tactic & gameplay stuff. We don't care about Monfils, we care about tennis no? I care about Monfils however

Btw this game is the one Rob talked so much about on chat, it's the Ant Game studio behind, who made the cricket game (which has a good reputation among cricket fans if I remember well).

[ItaStallion]

Animation aside this may be a great game.
The thing that excites me is the 32 licensed male and 32 licensed female players on mobile which gives me lots of hope for the console version. I will be getting the console version Jan 16th since I live in Australia.
List below:
Andy Murray R16 and Kei Nishikori R22 from the mens are missing
In the females only Svetlana Kuznetsova R12 is the missing player.
Which makes me think they are licenses they could not obtain

Male:
F. Krajnovic
M. Zverev
P. Cuevas
R. Gasquet
D. Dzumhur
P. Kohlschreiber
A. Mannarino
F. Fognini
D. Schwartzman
G. Muller
M. Raonic
A. Ramos-Vinolas
N. Kyrgios
R. Bautista-Agut
T. Berdych
L. Pouille
J. Isner
J. Tsonga
K. Anderson
S. Querrey
N. Djokovic
J. Martin del Potro
P. Carreno Busta
S. Wawrinka
J. Sock
D. Goffin
M. Cilic
D. Thiem
A. Zverev
G. Dimitrov
R. Federer
R. Nadal

Female:
E. Makarova
M. Lucic-Baroni
K. Bertens
L. Safarova
P. Kvitova
A. Radwanska
S. Peng
D. Cibulkova
D. Gavrilova
D. Kasatkina
B. Strycova
S. Williams
A. Kerber
M. Rybarikova
M. Keys
E. Vesnina
A. Barty
A. Sevastova
A. Pavlyuchenkova
J. Georges
S. Stephens
K. Mladenovic
C. Vandeweghe
J. Konta
C. Garcia
J. Ostapenko
E. Svitolina
V. Williams
K. Pliskova
C. Wozniacki
G. Muguruza
S. Halep

In the tournament mode even more licensed players can be seen in the tournament tree but you never actually vs them. This is just the list from quickmatch and the opponents you can actually vs. For the mobile game this is

Anyone who is still interested in AO tennis should read this article from a journalist who played the console game.
https://press-start.com.au/features/201 ... greatness/

The journalist mentions things that we previously did not know like a challenge system and stamina that are implemented.