Strokes of Genius: The Best of the Men

[djarvik]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/sport ... .html?_r=0

Agree/disagree/why?

[supinesmokey13]

the Best backhand list Tommy Haas should be higher he has arguably the best one handed backhand return in tennis and like stan he doesnt have a massive wind on his backhand almagro and gasquet hit harder but Haas's backhand is more economical

[Lucian86]

I do agree with most of the rankings.

BEST FOREHAND
- Nadal's forehand is heavier and maybe more difficult to deal it with but I feel Roger's forehand is better overall (best forehand ever in my mind) because it's more versatile. Nadal's one is pretty one dimensional instead but indeed very hard to return and attack. Anyway, it's a matter of preferences.
- I see Djokovic's forehand barely inside Top 5
- Surprised about Ferrer's forehand but if they say it's underrated then it must be true then.
- I would expected in top 5 forehands of Berdych or Tsonga

BEST TWO-HANDED BACKHAND
- Agree pretty much but I'm surprised to see Berdych's backhand as number 3

BEST ONE-HANDED BACKHAND
- I agree totally; Gasquet's backhand is more powerful and amazing to see but Wawrinka can take the ball very early and make it more effective

BEST FIRST SERVE
- Totally agree

BEST SECOND SERVE
- Idem

BEST RETURN
- Agree again; Good to see Federer is not in the top since I believe this is his worst shot; works only with big servers.

BEST VOLLEY
- I don't watch doubles so I don't know much about Paes volleys; I agree with the rest though

BEST OVERHEAD
- Agree

BEST PASSING SHOT
- Agree mostly but I believe Roger must be in top 5 as well

BEST TOUCH
- Agree. Gublis must be top6

BEST MOVEMENT
- Agree

BEST MENTAL GAME
- I believe Roger has a better mental game than Novak.

BEST ENDURANCE
- Agree

STRANGEST STROKE
- Dolgopolov for every single shot

TO PLAY A MATCH FOR YOUR LIFE
- I would also pick Nadal to play a match for my life

[djarvik]

I agree with most of that you say Lucian86, especially in FH department. Not sure what Ferrer does there, he should not be on that list. When I think Ferrer I think "roadrunner" - NOT forehand.

In BH, I would place Gulbis at #3. He proved it time and again again Berdych that in the BH to BH rallies he is a better man. In fact, djokovic had issues with that particular pattern as well. Gulbis might be the best out there in Bh to BH battle, but I feel Murray has more control of placement and deserves to be ranked higher then him and Djokovic has slightly more control and way more reach. Nishikori, as nice as it is, its not even close. He has limited reach and if you get the ball up to his shoulder (not hard to do with his height) - the errors will flow and the control goes away.

I would also put Haas over Magro in 1h BH.

As for the match for your life category, I don't think ANYONE watching today's tennis will pick anyone other then Rafa. He is head and shoulders above the rest in that department.

[supinesmokey13]

Ferrer is more than a roadrunner, his abilityt to dictate rallies with his forehand is underated he is on this list because he hits a fine insideout forehand. He is as good as just about anyone on tour at controlling points with his forehand. He didnt reach 3 in the world just being a pusher i dont know what ferrer everyone is watching calling him a roadrunner is a massive disservice to ferrer. I think if you asked the whole tour leander paes would probably be the pick he has some sweet hands max mryni deserves a mention he was top 20 singles player as a serve volleyer

[djarvik]

Never said he is JUST a roadrunner, rather that his main strength is being a roadrunner. Lets agree that most of Top100 people have world class FHs. I can name more then a few people who should be ranked ahead of Ferrer - and that is not to say that Ferrer's FH is bad, it is excellent. But this is a comparasing of a specific shot and their strength to the player.

...and btw he absolutely did reach the top 3 being a pusher. He is the definition of a pusher. If he is not a pusher - then who is? Please tell me.

You just need to look at ANY competitive match stats for Ferrer and any other opponent to recognize that he is a pusher.

I think people (you) have a perception that pushers only lob balls over the net. That maybe so at local club level. But a Professional pusher in ATP is more than that, he can attack and does so, just does it less frequent than other players and prefers to rely on his speed and consistent strokes to exert an error from the opponent, a forced error. Pushing to get an un-forced error doesn't work at that level, maybe against Gulbis's forehand.

[Corbon]

The topic I made about best of was more acccurate.

Ok a more in-debt look.

BEST FOREHAND - Top 3 agreed, 4 and 5 seem kinda random

BEST TWO-HANDED BACKHAND - Top 2 agreed

BEST ONE-HANDED BACKHAND - Top 3 agreed, 5 would be Kohlschreiber or Dimitrov

BEST FIRST SERVE - Top 3 agreed, maybe put Raonic over Karlovic. Federer at 4 is a joke.

BEST SECOND SERVE - Same as First Serve, why is this even a category?

BEST RETURN - Top 3 agreed

BEST VOLLEY - whatever

BEST OVERHEAD - Federer and Nadal both have amazing overheads for their height.

BEST PASSING SHOT - Nadal at #1 seems right

BEST TOUCH - Federer at #1

BEST MOVEMENT - Nadal, Ferrer, Monfils, Murray

BEST MENTAL GAME - Djokovic, Nadal

BEST ENDURANCE - Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer

STRANGEST STROKE - Gulbis ftw

TO PLAY A MATCH FOR YOUR LIFE - None

[Lucian86]

...and btw he absolutely did reach the top 3 being a pusher. He is the definition of a pusher. If he is not a pusher - then who is? Please tell me.

Yep..if Ferrer is not a pusher than nobody is ! Sure, it's modern ATP pusher. Any ATP player attacks you from a good position. You can't be a 100% pusher in top tennis.

For me Nadal is also a sort of a pusher but with a great weapon which he can use whenever he wants: the forehand !

TO PLAY A MATCH FOR YOUR LIFE - None

That's not an option

[coke4]

Would never have considered berdych one of the best returners in the game. I wouldn't put murray in too 5 tough either, there is times his touch is excellent, but other times it's quite average. I also find it surprising ferret didn't get a mention in movement, buts that's a highly competitive one I guess. Don't think federerr would be too 5 endurance either.
Would also place Hewitt over ferret in mental strength

[coke4]

Would never have considered berdych one of the best returners in the game. I wouldn't put murray in too 5 tough either, there is times his touch is excellent, but other times it's quite average. I also find it surprising ferret didn't get a mention in movement, buts that's a highly competitive one I guess. Don't think federerr would be too 5 endurance either.
Would also place Hewitt over ferret in mental strength