idee pour un classement plus juste

[didine17]

si il existe un classement The Race pour l itst et dans la realite on ne parle plus du classement ATP technique qui , je pense , serait plus realiste
par exemple si je participe a un tournoi 250 , un Challenger et un Future et que je perds tout au 1er tour , cela donnerait ceci : 25 points por le tournoi 250 , 10 pour le Challenger et 5 pour le Future , cela donnerait 25+10+5 = 40 points inscrits divises par 3 tournois disputés = 13 et quelque alors que dans le meme temps si Chrism (qui vient de battre sechement sabratha au 1 er tour du Future togo +50) participe a un tournoi Future fait une demie finale au tournoi Future marque 40 points : cela donnerait 40 points divises par un = 40 points ; nettement devant moi alors qu au depart on avait le meme nombre de points inscrits
qu en pensez vous ?
( si quelqu un voulait bien traduire ou me repondre ce serait super )

[didine17]

i will try to do the technical ATP from 1 to 31 january 2015
it gives us an idea to the fiability of this "classement"
i will give to the moderators the result

[C4iLL]

Translation : Didine suggests not to add all the results you get when you play several tournaments at the same time in both challengers tours and ATP tours, but instead, make a total of all the points you earn and divide by the number of tournaments played.
30
For instance, if you play 3 tournaments (a future, challenger + a 250 in the same week), you get 30 + 30 + 30 points = 90 points /3 = 30 points on the didine ranking and 90 on current ranking.

Didine thinks this is unfair.

[Elias]

Yeah basically Didine suggests to use the ATP technical ranking instead of race ranking, to seed players. Suggesting it's more representative of current player form/level.

As ITST mimics ATP behaviour, i think it's not an option regarding 250,500,1000's and GS. Though it could be an interesting approach regarding future/challengers. But it would require the technical ranking to be implemented/hardcoded in ITST website to apply, wich is not the case now. So who knows, maybe this coud be considered, if a technical ranking implementation is possible in the future version of the website.

[didine17]

je ne comprends pas bien ce que voulait dire Elias mais je ne veux en aucun cas remplacer the Race par le classement technique ; je voudrais avec l accord de tous les organisateurs de l itst essayer d appliquer mon idee pour le mois de janvier
est ce possible comme ca ?
Merci C4ILL

[ThierryH]

I think didine wants a ranking where the points are calculated as follows:

(ranking points) = (sum of the points won in all tournaments) / (number of tournaments played)

I am not sure if he wants this quotient to be calculated for each week or for the whole year combined but either way I don't think this is a good idea because it would discourage players from entering more tournaments and with the current ranking system only 19 of your tournament results count for the ranking anyway so players don't add up too many points just by participating in lots of tournaments.

[didine17]

Thierry , i have not understood all u wrote but , for example , i have played 18 doubles tournaments ; i have lost all my matchs ( i won one by walkover ) and with my points i have participated to doubles masters : something is wrong , isnt it?

[Elias]

Didine, je disais que ce n'est pas une mauvaise idée, et que ça pourrait être envisagé / discuté, en ce qui concerne les futures/challengers par exemple (pas pour les tournois type 250 et + vu qu' ITST reproduit autant que possible les règlements usuels de l'ATP. Par contre ce serait envisageable mais qu'a une condition, qui serait que le site ITST contienne un classement technique programmé / automatique, ce qui n'est pas le cas actuellement (on a uniquement le classement classique et le race d'implémenté). Si le classement technique était disponible alors je suppose que le staff pourrait éventuellement tester la chose s'ils en pensent du bien.
Car on ne peut pas demander aux managers/modérateurs de se taper ce classement à la main toutes les semaines.. (de plus tous les signups/seed sont automatisés en fonction d'un classement présent en base de données, donc cela ne peut être fait que si l'on dispose de ce classement dans la mécanique du site).

[didine17]

ok
si j ai bien compris , ce type de classement c est du lourd mais moi je peux assumer une partie du boulot pour les futures/challengers
et comme je disais a Thierry , j ai fait le masters de doubles en jouant 18 tournois de doubles et j ai tout perdu sauf un match gagné par walkover (lol ) : la ca va pas
j aurais jamais du etre qualifié
en tout cas si il faut bosser dessus je suis d accord
merci Elias pour la traduction

[pidzi]

Thierry , i have not understood all u wrote but , for example , i have played 18 doubles tournaments ; i have lost all my matchs ( i won one by walkover ) and with my points i have participated to doubles masters : something is wrong , isnt it?

Didine, you cant really take Doubles Tour as an example simply because throughout the whole season there was merely a 16 active players who participated in Doubles Tour and that number even decreased as we were closing the season and during the last tournaments there was barely a 8 signs up, so saying that its weird you participated in Doubles WTF is not really weird, it only shows that there was not enough signed players who were ranked higher than you. So it is only the problem of low participation of players in a given Doubles Tour, nothing more, nothing less, thus giving it as an example is plainly wrong.

This however, applies same for Singles Tour. I noticed you opened multiple threads about ranking points and draw issues. You cant really expect it will reflect real ATP Tour simply because we dont have 1500+ active players, but merely 70 at best who plays more than 2 tournaments a year. So if you wondering you can still participate at 250's category tournaments or that you are Seeded in challengers and futures, even though your W/L is deeply negative, is only because there is not enough players who would stand higher than you. You have to realize that even if you wont win a match in a given tournament, you still get 5 points from 1st round loss, but because at challengers and futures tend to have more W/O, many times you end up getting into the 2nd round without even playing and thus you gained 15 points for that tournament. Now if you play 30 tournaments a year, with average 10/tournament, you will end up having 300 points in ranking which is high enough to be seeded in lower tournaments. And honestly, you cant do nothing with this because this issue is only related to amount of active players.

Hopefully you got what i wanted to say and until TE ITST has at least 200+ active players, this problem will be there. So again, this more the problem of PLAYER BASE than system problem.

[didine17]

ok pidzi
it s true

[didine17]

i m agree with all pidzi said but cant we "give" 0 points to a guy just signing up at tournaments
just this

[didine17]

je voulais juste dire qu on ne marque pas de points en s inscrivant mais en gagnant des matchs : ca me parait plus juste ( certains peuvent pas s inscrire a beaucoup de tournois a cause de la famille , du boulot...)
JOYEUX NOEL !!!