R16 China Open

[Michael.D]

Sorauze guesser&loser def MichaelD 2/0 ret

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HSn2tgIYrE&feature=youtu.be



Thanks for your attention

Kind Regards, MichaelD.

[Richie1308]

And ?

[Uchiha Muss]

And ?

He and including me, we hate the way he plays. Especially that moving back and forth. Example look at this point:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HSn2tgI ... lpage#t=84

This is what we don't like. Only sorauze plays like that. People in Managames are complaining about this as well.

[Florian]

Sure the guy plays like a loser and enjoys it pretty much but what can you do about it except being very happy the day you get to outplay him ?

By the way from watching the first couple points I don't think you'd have had a different result if he didn't guess at all.

Retiring in such situations just gives credit to his tactics. If you just want to give the guy what he wants, then keep doing so, if you want to annoy him, keep fighting or do the same kind of guessing .

[Michael.D]

And ?

Hmm!!! I was the defending champion?

[spencercarlos]

Sure the guy plays like a loser and enjoys it pretty much but what can you do about it except being very happy the day you get to outplay him ?

By the way from watching the first couple points I don't think you'd have had a different result if he didn't guess at all.

Retiring in such situations just gives credit to his tactics. If you just want to give the guy what he wants, then keep doing so, if you want to annoy him, keep fighting or do the same kind of guessing .

There are basically 3 things that are killing the game online. Servers (both serves hard), guessers and the irreal defenders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZkVu3D-oR8).

No wonder i have lost completly interest in this .

Florian, i dont really see the point of playing a kind game you consider to be not the greatest / fair tactic yourself.

[Fez]

Sure the guy plays like a loser and enjoys it pretty much but what can you do about it except being very happy the day you get to outplay him ?

By the way from watching the first couple points I don't think you'd have had a different result if he didn't guess at all.

Retiring in such situations just gives credit to his tactics. If you just want to give the guy what he wants, then keep doing so, if you want to annoy him, keep fighting or do the same kind of guessing .

There are basically 3 things that are killing the game online. Servers (both serves hard), guessers and the irreal defenders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZkVu3D-oR8).

No wonder i have lost completly interest in this .

Florian, i dont really see the point of playing a kind game you consider to be not the greatest / fair tactic yourself.

I don't see why anything "unreal" should kill the game. Because, although I agree that these are bad tactics, top players overcome them, so its still a question of outplaying your opponent. "Guessing" cuts both ways, so let gamblers gamble. There are only a couple guys who constantly guess. And what do you mean by unreal defenders?

[Uchiha Muss]

I don't see why anything "unreal" should kill the game. Because, although I agree that these are bad tactics, top players overcome them, so its still a question of outplaying your opponent. "Guessing" cuts both ways, so let gamblers gamble. There are only a couple guys who constantly guess. And what do you mean by unreal defenders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZkVu3D-oR8

Here is a little help:
Google's definition of unreal:
Adjective = So strange as to appear imaginary; not seeming real

What are you trying to spin here? The guy said it's unreal and needless to say this shouldn't happen.

P.S. Tune in to tennis matches (not highlights) once in a while. Open your eyes maybe while you're at it.

[Richie1308]

I don't mind guessing : if you think a little about what your opponent is likely to guess, about where you serve usually, you can most of the time send your serve on the other side to have an ace. And like this, he will do less guessing as he understands at a point that it only works if you don't consider his guessing in your plans. Also, don't hesitate to use a less risky serve than first serve (I don't know how it is said in english, between first and second serve) with an effect, especially the slice : even if he guesses right, he won't be placed well on return so he won't benefit from this.

With just that you can find solutions against guessing and your opponent when he sees it is not effective will give up this strategy. But you sure have to think a little about it, if you don't I myself can see that the server often follows a sort of logical scheme on his serves direction so if you dont break it you may see the opponent guess easily your serves.

Think that in reality, if they don't do this guessing, it's only because they know it doesn't work (well some try from time to time when returning Isner or Raonic, and you can understand them), in the game the problem is the same : you can't go far just guessing unless your opponent lets himself trap.

[C4iLL]

Personally, I think there is nothing wrong in Sorauze style. I told him maybe 10 times that it's not a profitable tactic and that it's easy to exploit that to give him a lot of aces.

For instance, I usually give him between 10 and 15 aces / set with Federer because I anticipate the fact he's guessing. It's so easy... Now if he's masochist, it's his problem ^^

[Fez]

I don't see why anything "unreal" should kill the game. Because, although I agree that these are bad tactics, top players overcome them, so its still a question of outplaying your opponent. "Guessing" cuts both ways, so let gamblers gamble. There are only a couple guys who constantly guess. And what do you mean by unreal defenders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZkVu3D-oR8

Here is a little help:
Google's definition of unreal:
Adjective = So strange as to appear imaginary; not seeming real

What are you trying to spin here? The guy said it's unreal and needless to say this shouldn't happen.

P.S. Tune in to tennis matches (not highlights) once in a while. Open your eyes maybe while you're at it.

why don't you address the most important part of what i said uchi? "Top players overcome the bad tactics"
Stop complaining about tactics and get better at the game.

[Uchiha Muss]

why don't you address the most important part of what i said uchi? "Top players overcome the bad tactics"
Stop complaining about tactics and get better at the game.

LOL "tactic".

Unlike your so called "flaws" in the game, this is a genuine problem. Like I said there is only one Sorauze using it. I don't have to tell you how viruses work. Soon there will be more and more of them. They will populate ITST like chinese did it in china. when that day comes, brace yourself.

I don't have to overcome the things that weren't supposed to be there in the 1st place. That's what i think. The game has to be like in real life. That's not real. I don't know how to describe it but the link Spencer gave is pretty self explanatory.
You just don't see it in life.

[Richie1308]

You don't see it because it simply doesn't work well. If it was, it would be used. Here it's the same : I don't see any problem with that because I clearly think that it is not an advantage at all to guess regularly if you pay a little attention to that. Okay, if everybody was doing that it wouldn't be interesting, but it's their problem if they want to do something that won't allow them anyway to go far with just that, as you can easily find a solution. People do what they want (as long as it's not cheesy, like a baseline lob which this time can give an anormal advantage). If doing that gave an unfair advantage, yes I would be against it (ex : short slice which is not really well done in the game to my opinion) but here it's not the case, believe me.

And to finish, what do players do when they try to turn around their backhand to hit a forehand on the opponent's second serve ? Yes, they try their luck hoping the opponent will do what they expect and yes this is also guessing. And as in the game, it's the only guess that can be useful once in a while.

[Florian]

I don't want to promote myself but earlier today I played a tournie match vs Sorauze, he did his usual guessing on serve and sometimes during rallies and he still lost 1&1. Last summer I was playing way worse and we played a lot of tight sets, where sometimes his guesses could give him some edge, and it annoyed me since I had less "skill" to handle them. But since guessing doesn't give a direct winner, I think there is definitely some ways to handle it.

Oh yeah it took me a couple games to get used to it today, but as Richie said it is pretty realistic since in real tennis you still have to come up with some amazing shot if you want to close the point right away, but it mostly happens when you re defending so it mostly permits you to get back into the rally rather than killing it (why would you guess when you're dominating, and risking to lose the point in the most stupid manner ? ^^).

The big 4 happens to guess regularly, especially Nole and Rafa on passing shots, but they wouldn't be that stupid to guess serves, (only Fed guesses few 2nd serves), so when I see someone guessing on serve in TE, he is just probably a terrible returner or very little confident in his game. Btw I noticed Sorauze got mostly aced because he barely moved when I served (maybe because he hesitated to guess each time), so my opinion is that he doesn't think he is a great returner, so if you pay attention to your serve patterns you should be mostly fine with serve guesses.

[tdbchess]

For instance, I usually give him between 10 and 15 aces / set with Federer because I anticipate the fact he's guessing. It's so easy... Now if he's masochist, it's his problem ^^