What do the staff think about netplay?

[inseedious]

ITST 1.14 mod is an awesome update, adding a lot of realism to baseline rallies and making the game way less boring and more winner-friendly. As I always played puncher/varied players, I played a good RG with Federer, and was able to play very good matches even with Fish on clay, cause I improved a lot at net. But here on grass lots of problems are coming out: the tonicity fix is killing the netplay for the following reasons:
-players are overall slower, and way slower when they have to make short runs (like net rushes, especially wrong-foot ones);
-on grass it's even easier to hit tricky low passing shots made by just hitting a normal acceleration with mediocre positioning (a "normal" middle court acceleration without deepness, without any skill requirement), and building up a great point and being passed (or forced to a volley error or a no-volley) so easily is very frustrating;
-we can no more know when the net jump will trigger, because the tonicity fix is somehow blocking net jumps almost always, and this sometimes makes volleyers miss very near volleys, without any sense.

I want to underline that this is not a complaint. Yesterday I was chatting with Butcher about this, and he told me that netplay is now a lot less useful than before (near to be quite useless), and that he heard other similar comments from several players, so I decided to make this discussion public to understand your thoughts and especially the ones of the staff, hoping to find a solution. I still prefer 1.14 to 1.13, but what can be done to improve volley experience? Putting speed=tonicity just when at net? Wait for a new TE update (rumors say there will be the introduction of new and more precise stats)? Make some pressure on Manutoo to obtain a better scripted netplay, with, for example, the introduction of low volleys and better overall movements and shot adjustments when at net? I'm really sorry to think that Wimbledon will probably see less volleys than RG.

Please, discuss.

[Elias]

Putting speed=tonicity just when at net

That. woud. be. great. (but it's not just at the net, but moreover, reaching the net, running on the Y/vertical axis).

But we don't have the tools for this.

Basically, reducing the run acceleration (using tonicity, having run accel = (speed+tonicity)/2) brought a noticeable, aknowledged and welcomed improvement to the baseline gameplay, great feedback on this. Run accel was obviously too high before, the defense potential being way to overhelming, even with lowered speeds.

Though indeed, this also impacts other areas of the gameplay. Approaching the net being probably the more obvious one. i agree, we are aware of it (and no it was not intentional, but a collateral damage).

Let's make it straight : The features i would like to see in TE to improve / tweak the gameplay better, would be, being able to tweak the run acceleration on different axis/directions, distinctly.

Having some factor variables available for it would be great. (via modding in FREE mode, for instance, or could be hidden stats, whatever, as long as it works).

By factor variables i mean, still defining the main run acceleration with (speed+tonicity)/2, this run accel would be assigned to forward run acceleration. Then, providing : Horizintal run accel = Factorvariable_1 * forward run accel. And Backward run accel = Factorvariable_2 * forward run accel.


I would go for

forward run acceleration > horizontal/lateral run accel > backward run accel

Actually a backward run acceleration equal to forward one, is unrealistic, and plays a good part in the ability to defend way too easily in my opinion (i mean stepping back, not when the character turns back). As for realism, we run faster straight forward than laterally in the real world right ? It should be the same in TE and that would help a great deal being able to deal with both distinctly. Keeping decent net rushing speed, and containing left/right baseline movement potential.

Voilà, you know my opinion about it. For now, the run acceleration is a global value, and we're tied to this limitation. I have no idea if this would be complex for Manutoo to introduce such features, nor if TE engine already contains the mechanics to handle these run accelerations distinctly or not, internally.

[inseedious]

That. woud. be. great. (but it's not just at the net, but moreover, reaching the net, running on the Y/vertical axis).

But we don't have the tools for this.

Basically, reducing the run acceleration (using tonicity, having run accel = (speed+tonicity)/2) brought a noticeable, aknowledged and welcomed improvement to the baseline gameplay, great feedback on this. Run accel was obviously too high before, the defense potential being way to overhelming, even with lowered speeds.

Though indeed, this also impacts other areas of the gameplay. Approaching the net being probably the more obvious one. i agree, we are aware of it (and no it was not intentional, but a collateral damage).

Let's make it straight : The features i would like to see in TE to improve / tweak the gameplay better, would be, being able to tweak the run acceleration on different axis/directions, distinctly.

Having some factor variables (not as stats, but via modding in FREE mode, for instance) available for it would be great.

By factor variables i mean, still defining the main run acceleration with (speed+tonicity)/2, this run accel would be assigned to forward run acceleration. Then, providing : Horizintal run accel = Factorvariable_1 * forward run accel. And Backward run accel = Factorvariable_2 * forward run accel.


I would go for

forward run acceleration > horizontal/lateral run accel > backward run accel

Actually a backward run acceleration equal to forward one, is unrealistic, and plays a good part in the ability to defend ridiculously easily in my opinion. As for realism, we run faster straight forward than laterally in the real world right ? It should be the same in TE and that would help a great deal being able to deal with both distinctly. Keeping decent net rushing speed, and containing left/right baseline movement potential.

Voilà, you know my opinion about it. For now, the run acceleration is a global value, and we're tied to this limitation. I have no idea if this would be complex for Manutoo to introduce such features, nor if TE engines already contains the mechanics to handle this run accelerations distinctly or not, internally.

I agree with you here. A different speed/tonicity combination for every axis would be an awesome and smart solution, and I think it would be not so difficult to script, he should not cause problems with the game code. Also, the game can easily recognize also when the player is at net and whe he's at baseline, giving him different ways of moving. This can also let us have a better lob management, because the player, when reaching a lob, can just turn back and run forward (instead of that unreal backward run) after passing the service line. I think these are possible fixes for this problem. Thanks for your helpful opinion

[Elias]

Also, the game can easily recognize also when the player is at net and whe he's at baseline, giving him different ways of moving.

Yep having situational tweaking in addition for this would help to make it even better. different axis accelerations, and this on the two main spots : around the net / around the baseline. 4 factor variables ?
Honestly if i had these toys available i'd be already heavily testing to pinpoint some dream setup

[VMoe86]

There are some questions one has to answer before looking for the solution. Granted, more variables are always nice to have, but manutoo has to be willing to give them to us. All the following regarding TE as it is.

1. From 1.13 to 1.14/1.15 not only Tonicity was touched, but also Speed decreased and Stamina increased. How would have 1.14/1.15 turned out if we kept Tonicity = Speed, but with decreased Speed and increased Stamina? I suppose it would have been also better than 1.13, but maybe Run Acceleration still a bit too high, which leads to the next question.

2. What is the right value for Run Acceleration? What we have taken away on defence we also have taken away attack to some degree: Getting quicker to the ball while close to the baseline or following up quicker at the net after a big acceleration have been affected. We still see amazing defence, so that one was not completely eliminated. A slightly higher value for Run Acceleration (so, a bit higher Tonicity) might be a solution.

3. Which players should have high Run Acceleration and lower Speed, which lower Run Acceleration and higher Speed? Being able to tweak Run Acceleration and Tonicity for every character means we can create characters having lower maximum Speed but higher Tonicity for better responsiveness when going forward and playing at the net. Or we could have players with low Power, but good Speed and Run Acceleration so that these players have to play much quicker in order to hit winners. This option here requires quite some balancing work, though.

Right now I'd focus more on 2. and 3., finding out what works there as a good value.

[Uchiha Muss]

Yes there should be some fix about this netplay. I think this is wrong footwork I'm talking about.
You know If I run straight I can run fast. If I run to sides I'm fine.

But when someone does a dropshot I'm running just fine, but as soon as I step to left or right my player slows down so much, it's unbelievable. Basically I'm trying to say I suck at diagonal running.