ITST Mod 1.18 - What do you need to get started!

[VMoe86]

I really think that the auto step back is very movement restraining in v1.0f .
I mean it happens a lot at times it shouldn't disrupting movement rhythm and positioning.Any thoughts on that?

A lot of times? It does not happen often for me (per set I notice it at maximum two to four times). When it happens then it is usually in some situation, where the ball is on my opponent's side, and I do some positioning on my side -- my character then moves a bit automatically. I don't like it and would prefer it being optional just like we can adjust auto-positioning in the Character Sheet and Host Options.

EDIT: My thought of "Or another situation being shots on the run, where you see your player dragged to the ball automatically at times." is maybe not due to auto-step back.

[Elias]

I really think that the auto step back is very movement restraining in v1.0f .
I mean it happens a lot at times it shouldn't disrupting movement rhythm and positioning.Any thoughts on that?

Agree, same feeling here, i just hate it.

And we're not alone btw :

The F version is really really strange : the ball trajectories look weird, the game seems a lot more arcade with an increased speed.

01[01:08] <@EliasITST> i also really dont like this new "auto step back" thing wich is ment to help pad users
01[01:08] <@EliasITST> but i can feel this active all the time
01[01:08] <@EliasITST> feels like a bit less movement freedom around
[01:09] <Spencercarlos_> i hate it..
01[01:09] <@EliasITST> not that harsh but i felt moving more freely around with 1.0e
[01:09] <VMoe> I liked 1.0e more.
01[01:09] <@EliasITST> yeah carlos, hate it also
[01:09] <Spencercarlos_> sometimes your player goes to one side for some reason.. like skating or something
[01:09] <VMoe> Exactly, he moves for no reason randomly.
[01:17] <VMoe> At least he should make it optional.
01[01:17] <@EliasITST> yep

[manutoo]

Or another situation being shots on the run, where you see your player dragged to the ball automatically at times. I don't like it and would prefer it being optional just like we can adjust auto-positioning in the Character Sheet and Host Options.

This is likely not the auto-step-back in action, but the stabilizer of strike anims containing movement information.
Could you do a video on youtube showing that so I could confirm you which one of the 2 it is ?

[manutoo]

Elias,
could you do a Youtube video showing when you get the issue ?
And then provide a .dmo with it happening in the 1st few points ?

C4iLL,
v1.0f brought 0 change in ball physics, except on some slow ball that could get too high.

[Elias]

Elias,
could you do a Youtube video showing when you get the issue ?
And then provide a .dmo with it happening in the 1st few points ?

Well it's a general feeling being more restrained, for me it's just obvious playing the game some mins.
Difficult to emphasizes this with a vid, though the 'skating/magnet' effect is
sometimes worse in some situations, if i can see more obvious ones in my next match-ups i'll record a vid.

[VMoe86]

Or another situation being shots on the run, where you see your player dragged to the ball automatically at times. I don't like it and would prefer it being optional just like we can adjust auto-positioning in the Character Sheet and Host Options.

This is likely not the auto-step-back in action, but the stabilizer of strike anims containing movement information.
Could you do a video on youtube showing that so I could confirm you which one of the 2 it is ?

I'll try to make one, but this one is really rare, so I guess you are right about it not being due to auto-step back feature. Usually I notice the auto-step back when the ball is not near my player, as it should be in this build.

EDIT: What C4iLL notices as "more speed" is most likely the tweaked forward inertia. It definitely is noticeably faster, getting to drop shots is quite easy (playing TE Vanilla, for instance), but I play quite close to the baseline, so I also could get to drop shots with Isner in 1.0e.

EDIT #2: In the changelog you write about auto-step back to have "low effect for players with a good keyboard". I emphasize "good", because it is maybe the key why some notice it more, some less. Is that correct?

[Elias]

EDIT: What C4iLL notices as "more speed" is most likely the tweaked forward inertia. It definitely is noticeably faster, getting to drop shots is quite easy (playing TE Vanilla, for instance), but I play quite close to the baseline, so I also could get to drop shots with Isner in 1.0e.

an what C4iLL notice as "more arcade" is most likely this more constrained movement feeling due to something else, just a guess.

[manutoo]

VMoe86,
"good" keyboard could be also read as "fast fingers" on the keyboard...
No one ever complained about that feature on official MG's Forums, and usually, the complains come fast, so it likely means the auto-step-back correctly anticipates the action of the experienced players.

Elias & Everybody,
I will emphasis that it's not an arcade control nor a real helper (like is the Danger Zone or the Medium & Fast AutoPos (*) ), coz the game reacts to _you_ releasing a direction key ; if _you_ released the direction key, it means _you_ noticed you were running in the wrong direction, and _you_ decided to run in the opposite direction. That's what the auto-step-back lets you do, but faster than by using the Keyboard (and a lot faster than by using a gamepad), coz the game engine just directly reads your mind instead..!

I just tried to see if the auto-step-back could wrongly trigger if stopping to move right after the opponent hits the ball, and I didn't get any noticeable results ; but in my frenzy to run all around, I finally got a case where I badly noticed the auto-step-back : I was moving to the left, saw I was too far from the ball on the right, and stopped to move & then wanted to run away to the left anyway and saw my player delayed, coz he was stopped more than I thought. The feeling wasn't nice, but in a real game situation, I never do that, and the point was already over anyway...

(*) Bonus Note: Slow autopos is not an helper either, as I stated somewhere else, coz without it, you cannot play the game correctly anymore (ie: it's physically and/or timely not possible to center the ball anymore most of times).

[Elias]

coz the game engine just directly reads your mind instead..!

wow, i would be glad to patent such algorythm

Well, i guess it's all fine if you feel cumfortable with it ?

It's just feeling bad/weird here compared to 1.0e, can't add more words about it. A constrained movement feels more arcade, cause less freedom means less depth and possibilities (even miss possibilities, edge weird positionned shots etc). Don't ge me wrong, it's still a very good game, but that's a bad move in my opinion. We should have the choice about such things, as configurations options / toggles at least, to please either communities, arcade / in between / sim or else.

coz the game reacts to _you_ releasing a direction key ; if _you_ released the direction key, it means _you_ noticed you were running in the wrong direction, and _you_ decided to run in the opposite direction.

By the way, i don't agree with that, i really don't want the cpu to "think" instead of me, don't drag me in the opposite direction when i release any key please
If you see this feature as an advantage, i'll be glad to gimp myself de-activating it even for my tour matches.

No one ever complained about that feature on official MG's Forums, and usually, the complains come fast, so it likely means the auto-step-back correctly anticipates the action of the experienced players.

By experienced players, do you mean all this people playing with 100% stats (scaled to 90 sure), no fatigue, display helpers on, medium autopos etc ? you don't have much complaints because the overall positive effect on speed, probably. I guess Spencercarlos is also an experienced player over here. All this is a matter of taste about control mechanics, differently oriented communities, different tastes. By the way i could read some feedbacks for previous 1.0f builds about a lack of movement freedom, 'skating' etc, but they were deleted after the last build release (wich reduced this effect a bit hopefully)

[djarvik]

In my limited experience, playing with the Pad, I cannot really see the difference. I am not versed enough with keyboard to comment, but as far as playing with Pad, I feel absolutely the same. That tells me that the change is not only minimal but also beneficial.

One thought I had, after seeing what Vmoe has to say and Elias, is that you guys use keyboard differently. I can even see it when playing you. Vmoe has a more smooth technique, while Elias does more of this little"presses" "adjustment" steps. Maybe the problem lays there.

I do however agree with the rest of the guys Manu, if this could be Pad related only, or a Switchable on/off option - it would be great. Not sure if this is possible though, but it seems to me that this is a "helper", however little it is, and should be "optional" and not a mandatory part of the Engine.

As a Pad user - anything that frustrates Keyboards guys is fine by me!

[manutoo]

Elias,
the 2 main complaints after 1.0f release were :
- the auto-step-back triggering when we were already in the ball reach ; it has been fixed with Build 93 and no more complaints raised after that
- the over-acceleration done when turning while running ( = skating), which has been fixed in Build 92 and got no more complaints after that

If you can isolate a case where the auto-step-back does something you didn't want to do, then record it, I'll analyze it and then think about what is the best solution. I will not put this feature optional if I don't know what case gives problem, especially coz I'm still not 100% sure you're not actually annoyed by the strike anim stabilizer.

And a little bonus note : the auto-step-back actually simulates better what I (and any tennis player for a matter of fact) do a on _real_ court : ie: once I stop to accelerate in a direction, I decelerate/accelerate in the opposite direction ; there's no latency between these 2 states.
What the latency brought by the controller would do in real life is : I let my body follow its course (ie: slowly decelerate / staying immobile) for a while before actually starting to actively decelerate/accelerate in opposite dir, although I already decided to run in the opposite direction.
So calling "arcade" something that actually simulates better what's going on in real life feels a bit strange.

[C4iLL]

Another problem I never pointed out since build E (or maybe D) which makes the volley style random sometimes : a bug when you rush to the net.

When my player runs to the net, he sometimes plays a ball like a real forehand or backhand, which goes out, instead of a real volley.
The character is on the ball, so the volley animation should be trigerred, but it's a random Forehand / Backhand which is played instead.

That's a really annoying thing because the ball always goes out in these conditions...

[p.napalm]

Another problem I never pointed out since build E (or maybe D) which makes the volley style random sometimes : a bug when you rush to the net.

When my player runs to the net, he sometimes plays a ball like a real forehand or backhand, which goes out, instead of a real volley.
The character is on the ball, so the volley animation should be trigerred, but it's a random Forehand / Backhand which is played instead.

That's a really annoying thing because the ball always goes out in these conditions...

Yep, I pay attention on the same problem. It's a little bit annoying. It will be nice to fix it.

[eliomelma]

What is in INI file , the options with 2: may avoid lag during replay?

[AmazOuz]

Now, i hate 1.0f, i love 1.0e than this new version. When i hit the ball (online mod) with the b1+b2, sometimes it looks like i didn't press on keyboard o.O
My level now is 0/1000000, i lose 6/4 with the players that i was beating 6/2 and 6/1
P.S : @ManuTOO : I sent you an e-mail
Hope that 1.0h will have a great gameplay

Best regards,
MarcaTennis on MG Forum