Indian Wells BNP Paribas Open

[inseedious]

So, calling this a mishit is not the correct term and implies the opponent likes to hit "wrongly". This is a core feature of TE's gameplay, nothing regarding that will be changed for TE 2013 to my knowledge (but for a future TE 2014/15 it is possible). So, instead of annoying manutoo (and the whole community) with the same things over and over again which won't be changed in a quick update: Deal with it. And if I see this term used for those deep shots in future posts I will gladly delete them, because it only irritates other users.

I use this term because I'm not English, so I thought it was the only term able to explain in one single word this phenomenon, as explaining this shot every time is very time consuming. I think no one wants to irritate the other users, even if, as you said and according to some our chat sessions, this shot is due to a particular usage of the aiming zone, way wider if we hit at the very last time. Though, I don't think using them is a very fair tactic, as it just imply hitting low quality shots (compared to charged and aimed ones) to win some casual points (they can be a lot if the player masters this ability). Obviously manutoo won't do anything about this, both according to the things you said about it and because this is particularly hurting our community as slow-autopos users, I think that with high-autopos, on the mana tour, this is less annoying. However, this is not the correct thread, so I'll stop talking about this.
P.S.: what term would you use to fastly describe those shots?

[C4iLL]

For me this deep mishit thing had no existence until some guys here begin to use this word, so it's not bad to ban that word from the vocabulary. But i'm not pro in the TE mechanisms so I let people employ it without contestating. An alternative would just be "a deep long shot" ?

[Florian]

So, calling this a mishit is not the correct term and implies the opponent likes to hit "wrongly". This is a core feature of TE's gameplay, nothing regarding that will be changed for TE 2013 to my knowledge (but for a future TE 2014/15 it is possible). So, instead of annoying manutoo (and the whole community) with the same things over and over again which won't be changed in a quick update: Deal with it. And if I see this term used for those deep shots in future posts I will gladly delete them, because it only irritates other users.

What kind of diktat is this now ? People have been using that mishit word for years in MG and no one seem to have been annoyed, especially since players like Voja used them on purpose.
Plus you forget to explain how good is that word to explain also short mishits, also known as body shots.

So as long as you don't explain which substitute we should use, i'll keep using mishit for short or deep ones (or do you prefer people to use the term "lucky deep shot" since as you say it's only involving luck ?

[VMoe86]

People have been using that mishit word for years in MG and no one seem to have been annoyed, especially since players like Voja used them on purpose.

http://www.managames.com/Forum/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=mishit

Plus you forget to explain how good is that word to explain also short mishits, also known as body shots.

Mishits in TE land short, so there the word is an accurate description. The shot you are constantly talking about is not a mishit.

So as long as you don't explain which substitute we should use, i'll keep using mishit for short or deep ones (or do you prefer people to use the term "lucky deep shot" since as you say it's only involving luck ?

That shot is as lucky as hitting a maximum speed ace (no one complains about that). TE itself is designed around luck, this goes for every shot in TE. Just call it a deep counter, which you could have derived from the explanation I gave.

[Florian]

Fine I'll say lucky deep counter when this happens several times in a row
And concerning serves I m much more annoyed by the regularity one can hit several normal speed serves on the exact line, especially using the sliced serve, rather than a powerfull serve (where you can hit many times deep lucky counters whereas there should be a fairly high % of high and short return back at those big serves).

[tigerofintegrity]

If we're all here because we like playing on a tour that mimics the real thing, we should really be able to talk about it correctly too. Imagine how annoying it would be watching tennis on tv, when every time Djokovic counters a ball near the baseline, the commentators exclaim 'What a lucky mishit by Djokovic again!'.

The way TE is built, with randomised landing inside of aiming zones, there's a certain amount of 'luck' to any shot. A cleanly hit counter landing deep isn't any bit as lucky as hitting the outside of a line with an accel shot as opposed to it going out in my view (and nobody complain about those either). Whether this shot is an 'exploit' is a bit more debateable but as VMoe says, it's a core mechanic of TE so there's really nothing to be done about it at all.

[djarvik]

I think the problem is as follows:

First, the shot itself. It mostly manifests itself on the run, specifically run to the open court. What that means to me, as an attacker, is that I MUCH rather wrong foot my opponent instead of hitting to the open court, which is kinda insane in terms of tennis. Sure, there is an element of luck to this shot, but it is at its "luckiest" while running across the open court to cover an attacking shot placed near the line.

Second, when we attack in tennis, the tendency is to always move forward. This is the only shot that Forces the attacker AFTER making a GREAT contact with the ball into the open court for a winner to not only step back, as opposed to step forward, but step back a good deal behind the baseline to make an effective return.

Yes, this is how the game is built, yes we have to deal with it, yes we should stop bitching (at least in public) about it. But no, this is not a "well designed" part of the game, and no, this is not what should happen in reality.

This shot seems to manifest itself once every RALLY, as opposed to manifest itself as a "great get" once every few games, or even a set. Hitting this type of shot while NOT being on the run seems more realistic and it happens way less frequently. Something about being on the run and pressing it the last second increases the chances of this shot. I see a lot of players are actively "looking" for that shot, which is a bit annoying - but its their choice.

[Florian]

This shot seems to manifest itself once every RALLY, as opposed to manifest itself as a "great get" once every few games, or even a set. Hitting this type of shot while NOT being on the run seems more realistic and it happens way less frequently. Something about being on the run and pressing it the last second increases the chances of this shot. I see a lot of players are actively "looking" for that shot, which is a bit annoying - but its their choice.

+10000*10000

There is actually no chance to hit even close to how deep the "deep-counter" is even if you have the maximum of time to press b1 or b1+b2.

I know this is something we can't do anything about but for manutoo the most realistic way to handle depth would be sth like 20% chances to hit a deep counter while defending on the run, 60% chances to hit shorter, and 20% to hit out long. Concerning attacking, there should be a random % (let's say around 20% maybe) of your powerfull attacks that should land deeper than the regular ones (depending on the counter skill added to how early you're on the shot), then around 70% should be at normal lengh, and the rest should be about, also depending on how tired you are.

Only my opinion but i'd love to see that happening in the next TE

[Elias]

This shot seems to manifest itself once every RALLY, as opposed to manifest itself as a "great get" once every few games, or even a set. Hitting this type of shot while NOT being on the run seems more realistic and it happens way less frequently. Something about being on the run and pressing it the last second increases the chances of this shot. I see a lot of players are actively "looking" for that shot, which is a bit annoying - but its their choice.

I agree with most of your analysis and also about having a larger proportion of these balls leading to a depth error (wich happens a bit more often of off low precision wings), or landing shorter. Though i don't agree with actively "looking" for them. When your style is more of a defender and you're a good mover then you are able to recover a lot of balls just in reach, just in time, and of course using b1+down in this situation is pretty logical, and these shots will then happen, and happen again. Sure you can choose to use a b1+b2 in this situation often resulting in a poor shot or hitting the net, but i'd rather use a defensive/safe shot, one can't be held responsible of the way TE renders these shots, neither choose to look at the ball pass them to avoid those, obviously.

[djarvik]

Well I could agree with you, or disagree. Depends how you look at it:

- You can say that on the run you use defensive shot, which is logical as you are defending. But you cannot say you are not "hoping" that this defensive shot will be a counter Well, maybe not you personally, but I am sure many do...they hope it will be a counter. Hell, when I am in trouble - I hope for it too! So we are "sorta" looking for it on defense, as opposed to take a RISK with a Accel or a short Accel. We kinda keep hitting that defensive shot that game "forces" us to hit, and secretly hoping for a deep counter.

We may not put ourselves in defensive position as to "look" for that shot - here is where you are totally right, but we will gladly accept the counter and even hope for it, and at times "wait" for it, making defensive shots when we really can pick a different, more attacking shot.

Anyway, maybe "looking" for it is not the right way to say it. My main point is that this is happening at a VERY crucial point of the game - on a dead run when the attacker hits a quality shot, and it happens too often. And that changes the dynamic of the game, forcing us to play behind the player WAY more than it happens in real life, thus taking TE away from reality in a very core of rallying.

[Elias]

Sure i also hope for it because it helps to defend, and playing TE for some time already i'm used to these shots, they are a part of this game and a defensive "tool". I would even say necessary, because how to play a defensive shot if you can't hit this one, a baseline lob ?

The problem seems more to be the % distribution of short/deep shots when the aiming zone is quite large, the deep ones landing near the baseline should be fewer ( but only in this specific situation when the aiming zone is large on the Z axis, and also maybe depending the character playstyle, a defender could be allowed more deep ones maybe, though i think they already have enough assets ).

But i'm not even sure of it because we can't track precise statistics of these shots and their landing area. And of course everyone tend to notice the deep ones much more because they cause some trouble. Same goes for drops, sometimes you play a match and your opponent hits like 10 drops in the match, some of them hurting you in crucial moments, and in the end, you feel like he dropped the whole match (i can remember myself writing a report mentionning 15-20 drops and counting them watching the replay aftewards, there was only 10 ).

[inseedious]

I think that things are simple: those deep long shots should be less frequent, slower and higher (also the height should be casual imho), while also attacks should have a bit more deepness if hit and charged well. For example, while charging, the aiming zone should become deeper and then starting to become smaller. Yeah, it's like what happens now, but there should also be a bit more luck or casual influence on attacks, they can land on deep lines too. Of course, a videogame isn't designed to depend a lot on luck, as it would be annoying otherwise, but a right balance is still possible.

Also backspin shots are a big lack, as they would be a great defensive weapon, causing less deep counters (and maybe replacing no-shots while reaching). Our slice shots are totally different from realistic backspin ones, and they can't be used correctly as defensive/offensive weapons, as they bounces relatively high and wide, instead of just low.

[C4iLL]

Sedas (Fed) vs C4iLL (Llodra) = 7-6, 6-4

First set : Well for the sixth time in a row , I lost my first service game in the first set... 2-0 for Sedas....
At 4-3 I managed to come back 4-4. But due to the high stamina left in on his previous serve, I lost once again my serve... 5-4 for Sedas. He served for the set, but I managed once again to come back.

We go to tie-break and there, he just played better than me.

Second set : I was extremely relax, I had 2 break points opportunities on the first game but didn't manage to convert them.
All my services finished 40-0 while his finished at 40-a. But I wasn't realistic today, I was good on smashes, but on maybe the most important one, I missed it, stuff like that...

At 5-4 for him, I was serving. With skills, realism and a bit of luck he managed to hit good passings to lead 0-40. I saved two match points, but missed the third : end of the match, end of the tournament :/

I played pretty well, but Sedas is extremely solid with this Fed, always sending the ball back and back again. I really felt innofensive with Llodra from baseline, even when I hit very powerful shots near the lines.
At the end I made 40 faults, mainly during extremely long rallies. I try a lot of tactics but it never worked constantly. With his style, I had really few opportunities and time to come at the net and from the baseline he was really secure with his fed vs my limited Llodra

[Clog]

First set : Well for the sixth time in a row , I lost my first service game in the first set...

The fact that you noticed it makes me believe it's a pure mental issue.

[C4iLL]

Yeah indeed, it's as if I'm masochist, wanting more challenge and I don't care the first games ^^