Fez returns and with the best idea in ITST history

[Fez]

Hello peeps,

So I'm back, just to feel out new TE version. I thought of a great idea. Probably very difficult to implement but whatever, here it is:

I love the realism of ITST, its mission. But one glaring lack of realism is the fact that characters play same characters. E.g. Djoker vs Djoker.... Really retarded. All the work to get realism, then there's doppleganger's running around on the court. Here's the fix---When you start a tourney, have the charcters that users play with be randomely generated, like the draw is random. ANd the draw isn't able to assign the same characters to multiple users. So you never know what player you will use. This will eliminate the Feds vs Feds etc.
And it really tests the top players to overcome mismatches more often. For example, if Vramvrim (or whatever) is Jack Sock (I'll explain his inclusion later) can he beat CLOG when he's Murray? Can VMOE using (insert bottom player here) beat Djarvik who is using Djoker?

Additionally, when playing Futures, top players wouldn't even be available. If I'm playing futures than only 40+ ranked players in real life are actually available. And so on.

The obvious problems are these, followed by solutions:
1-The tourney draw will often be much smaller than pool of characters. So will some characters not appear in a tourney? Yes, but for example, a 32draw tourney begins, so will Fed be randomely eliminated from the brackets sometimes? No, when the tourney is smaller than available characters, only the top 32 ranked players in real life will be part of randomized character assignments. So if draw was 64 and only 52 players signed up only top 52 players in the world would be in the possible "character draw"
2-WHat about huge draws? there arent enough characters on TE to accomodate the huge draw. Yes, this is the big problem. It would meant the ITST team building more players, at least top 128 players in world. The Jack Socks, etc...
Probably way too much work? Could they just chip away at it? Maybe we'd get there in a year?

3-Many players will complain about using players they don't like, or getting stuck with lower players over and over. Well, this is the price of true realism. We may get screwed in the "character draw" (as I'll call it). But this would create more often the drama of "upsets" in the TE universe. And again, it would level the field of competition. I'm a lover of being an underdog (glad I love it, always am one), and can you imaging how gratifying it would be to pull a big upset with a low player. Heavenly.

I'm sure there's a lot I'm not thinking of. I'm curious what everyone thinks of this. Feedback please. And try to resist any sarcastic comments about my "departure/return". May your soul not be so predictable.

[Elias]

You're a crazy dog Fez, but i like some of your ideas. This is a sexy one i have to say. Though, i doubt it would be popular, and well, popularity is a damn important thing for a project like this TE Tour. Figure out, that loads of newcomers want to play their fav real life tennis star icon, Federer, Djokovic, etc. Hell, some guys even use Nadal when he's weaker and not balanced properly (respect and sorry for that) because they are huge Rafa fans. Keep this away from them and i guess they may be bored and quit if they get too much random unlucky/unwanted chars assigned.

Also balance is a pretty difficult task, so at least, members having the choice, this somewhat avoids the risk being screwed by a wrong balance. Imagine, unlucky pick, unbalanced char, and so much whining and hate incoming toward the management. A character change was even allowed for RG lately because of this, better having members satisfied and using a character they feel they can rely on, than losing, feeling screwed, that's the main point.

So yes if we could reach a near perfect balance, it would be a very sexy idea, but i guess we won't ever get there, even if the roster improved a lot on this apsect, there is mostly always some flaws, though we're doing our best for it being enjoyable.

[Fez]

Thanks for calling it sexy Elias. Good word for it. I can always count on you to be a true lover of realism. You're right about the problem of popularity. The irony though is that people join ITST because of loving realism, but many are against changes that would make the game more real. funny. IN the end people are visionless, not open to unfamiliar ideas, however enriching they may be.

And understandably, ITST is forced to compromise the very principles it espouses in the effort to appease the masses of self-conflicted gamers.
Imagine a world of TRUE realists Elias, where the people were not fickle and self-serving but true to the vision of realistic gaming.

By the way, you could make it so even in futures, top 16 players were in the "character draw". That way the newcomers would still have a good shot at being some of their fave players. I'm not as fervent about the idea of only 40+ ranked players available in futures as I am about the main idea.

[costiiforzaa]

I support at 100% this idea Fez! By the way there is no need for extra players. Just in bigger draw than 32, we will have maximum 2-3 same chars. It will be at 100% better than now!

Here are some stats from RG:

Whole draw 68: (The players that I wrote down make 65 and I dont know which player is playing Juani so 66, so 2 players are loosing to me, sorry )
Federer - 14
Djokovic - 13
Dimitrov - 5
Wawrinka - 5
Nadal - 4
Murray - 4
Gasquet - 4
Almagro - 3
Gulbis - 3
Raonic - 2
Del Potro - 1
Berdych - 1
Ferrer - 1
Monfils - 1
Youzhny - 1
Dolgopolov - 1
Tsonga - 1
Verdasco - 1
Nalbandian - 0
Baghdatis - 0
Isner - 0
Fish - 0
Cilic - 0
Goffin - 0
Llodra - 0
Melzer - 0
Kohlschreiber - 0
Harrison - 0
Davydenko - 0
Tomic - 0
Stepanek - 0
Haas - 0
Nishikori - 0
Lopez - 0
Simon - 0
Tipsarevic - 0

So here u can see : 18 players are just ignored! This is the half of the roster! And Federer have 14 multiples and Djokovic -13. This things are not normal! Something have to be done for sure!

P.S. : I used and this topic - http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1047&t=17708 , so everything is updated in my stats.

[C4iLL]

It's a good but dangerous idea which gives the roster more value.

Advantage : it will create more incertainity between players. A guy from top40 can hope to beat a guy from top20 if he has Fed and the top20 a less good player. (which is maybe impossible today)


Disadvantage : the ranking will be even less representating of the level of people. Winning a tournament won't mean you're the best of the tournament, it's possible you just had luck with your character draw. ITST competition is about luck/fun or skill ? This is a question !

I think this should be at least applied in Davis Cup. For ITST tour I have no opinion, it's really sensitive

[costiiforzaa]

Another very interesting thing will be if the players can play in a single tournament only with the players who are playing on the same tournament in the reallife the same year. For example in Garry Weber Open the players will can only use: Federer, Nadal, Gasquet, Raonic, Haas, Nishikori, Kohlschreiber, Youzhny, Melzer, Baghdatis, Monfils(maybe) and Gulbis. And for AEGON Championships : Murray, Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, Cilic, Dimitrov, Tomic, Llodra, Dolgopolov and Harrison.This change will bring more realism for sure! When a player is injured he cant be use and this is normal! And when there are two open tournaments like AEGON and Weber Open now, the players are not going to watch only which players are signed up in the tour and will try to escape from players like butche, Moe and others. But they will watch and which pro players they will can use for this tournament. Of course for Challengers and Futures all players can be used.

[costiiforzaa]

It's a good but dangerous idea which gives the roster more value.

Advantage : it will create more incertainity between players. A guy from top40 can hope to beat a guy from top20 if he has Fed and the top20 a less good player. (which is maybe impossible today)


Disadvantage : the ranking will be even less representating of the level of people. Winning a tournament won't mean you're the best of the tournament, it's possible you just had luck with your character draw. ITST competition is about luck/fun or skill ? This is a question !

I think this should be at least applied in Davis Cup. For ITST tour I have no opinion, it's really sensitive

If the guys from top 10 are really good, they will can play with all players good. So this will be another challenge for them .

EDIT: I think that now the roster is really very balanced so there will not be a real problem with the "luck" of getting a pro player. There are just diff styles and its will be more interesting to see different ITST players playing with diff chars. For example: One player get Nadal, on the next tournament he Isner and on the next Goffin. It will be really very interest.

[C4iLL]

Another very interesting thing will be if the players can play in a single tournament only with the players who are playing on the same tournament in the reallife the same year. For example in Garry Weber Open the players will can only use: Federer, Nadal, Gasquet, Raonic, Haas, Nishikori, Kohlschreiber, Youzhny, Melzer, Baghdatis, Monfils(maybe) and Gulbis. And for AEGON Championships : Murray, Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, Cilic, Dimitrov, Tomic, Llodra, Dolgopolov and Harrison.This change will bring more realism for sure! When a player is injured he cant be use and this is normal! And when there are two open tournaments like AEGON and Weber Open now, the players are not going to watch only which players are signed up in the tour and will try to escape from players like butche, Moe and others. But they will watch and which pro players they will can use for this tournament. Of course for Challengers and Futures all players can be used.

this is the best idea Fez had in this topic i think. Maybe a system could be found to balance things. For instance, someone who lost 10 first round in a row would have more chances to get a Djoko-Fed etc.
The goal would be to reduce the gap between great players who sometimes practice too much an casual guys that don't have time to practice a lot and then are always destroyed by top players.

[costiiforzaa]

Another very interesting thing will be if the players can play in a single tournament only with the players who are playing on the same tournament in the reallife the same year. For example in Garry Weber Open the players will can only use: Federer, Nadal, Gasquet, Raonic, Haas, Nishikori, Kohlschreiber, Youzhny, Melzer, Baghdatis, Monfils(maybe) and Gulbis. And for AEGON Championships : Murray, Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, Cilic, Dimitrov, Tomic, Llodra, Dolgopolov and Harrison.This change will bring more realism for sure! When a player is injured he cant be use and this is normal! And when there are two open tournaments like AEGON and Weber Open now, the players are not going to watch only which players are signed up in the tour and will try to escape from players like butche, Moe and others. But they will watch and which pro players they will can use for this tournament. Of course for Challengers and Futures all players can be used.

this is the best idea Fez had in this topic i think. Maybe a system could be found to balance things. For instance, someone who lost 10 first round in a row would have more chances to get a Djoko-Fed etc.
The goal would be to reduce the gap between great players who sometimes practice too much an casual guys that don't have time to practice a lot and then are always destroyed by top players.

RIGHT!

[VMoe86]

I don't see the realism of it. It is as realistic as letting Federer play one tournament with his normal racquet, next tournament with a Head racquet, the other one with Babolat etc. WE are the players, it is about finding out who of us is the best at TE ITST Mod. The best way on finding this out would be to let players have only one character per tournament, let's say at Roland Garros the Draw is full Nadals, at Wimbledon only Federer, and every tournament this character changes.

I see it more like Formula 1: There are teams ("Team Federer", "Team Djokovic" etc), which you can change for every race ( = tournament). Every character is used in a different way, depending on the player using him. One Djokovic user is maybe trying to push more, hits more moonballs, while the other Djokovic user is super aggressive. This is where the differences come from: How WE play the game. Some guys are such pushers that Gulbis is totally harmless in their hands. In Formula 1 I find duels within a team very interesting. In some racing series' like GP2 they have standardized cars (so basically same character as explained above) and this makes it easier to make out the best driver.

I see your point, but a competition like ITST TE Tour is not about leveling the field. We have to make sure that all characters, though being different, are balanced and offer the chance of winning when used in very good hands. At the same time we also want to reflect the real tennis hierarchy (less and less from one version to another version of the Mod), so there will always be some characters a bit (or a bit more) better than others.

[costiiforzaa]

I don't see the realism of it. It is as realistic as letting Federer play one tournament with his normal racquet, next tournament with a Head racquet, the other one with Babolat etc. WE are the players, it is about finding out who of us is the best at TE ITST Mod. The best way on finding this out would be to let players have only one character per tournament, let's say at Roland Garros the Draw is full Nadals, at Wimbledon only Federer, and every tournament this character changes.

I see it more like Formula 1: There are teams ("Team Federer", "Team Djokovic" etc), which you can change for every race ( = tournament). Every character is used in a different way, depending on the player using him. One Djokovic user is maybe trying to push more, hits more moonballs, while the other Djokovic user is super aggressive. This is where the differences come from: How WE play the game. Some guys are such pushers that Gulbis is totally harmless in their hands. In Formula 1 I find duels within a team very interesting. In some racing series' like GP2 they have standardized cars (so basically same character as explained above) and this makes it easier to make out the best driver.

I see your point, but a competition like ITST TE Tour is not about leveling the field. We have to make sure that all characters, though being different, are balanced and offer the chance of winning when used in very good hands. At the same time we also want to reflect the real tennis hierarchy (less and less from one version to another version of the Mod), so there will always be some characters a bit (or a bit more) better than others.

You dont see the realism of it? Have I ever told you that u r weird?

EDIT: Ok, see on the other hand. Imagine that Cilic or Tomic join this site and see that they are used only 1-2 times in the year. Do you think that this will be good for their confidence?! You are really a bad boy!

[VMoe86]

I don't see the realism of it. It is as realistic as letting Federer play one tournament with his normal racquet, next tournament with a Head racquet, the other one with Babolat etc.

You dont see the realism of it? Have I ever told you that u r weird?

I gave the reason why I think so, but you ignore that reason. And my post was meant as a response to Fez's idea, not yours or C4iLL's.

[C4iLL]

@ Dimitrov :Well it's not realistic to intentionnaly start a match or a tournament with some handicap. In real life, Djokovic, when he plays a guy ranked beyond 100th, he doesn't play with a ping pong racket just to balance the match and create some incertainy.

That's why this is not realistic at all to create spme randomless. This really depends on ITST philosophy : if the goal is to set up a competition as Vmoe said, then this idea is irrelevant because it makes the competition rigged.
An example : a few days ago I played an Haas vs a Verdasco, I lost 6-1. I asked for a rematch with an other character --> I took Djokovic, he kept Verdasco, I won 6-3.

Now if the goal is to have fun and we don't care about results, well Fez idea is a good one. As Davis Cup would be something between pure competition as the ITST tour seems to be, and fun with some teamate funky patriotism, jokes provocation etc, it's perhaps the only acceptable proposition. That's why I suggested to only use the players of your own country

[costiiforzaa]

I don't see the realism of it. It is as realistic as letting Federer play one tournament with his normal racquet, next tournament with a Head racquet, the other one with Babolat etc.

You dont see the realism of it? Have I ever told you that u r weird?

I gave the reason why I think so, but you ignore that reason. And my post was meant as a response to Fez's idea, not yours or C4iLL's.

Ok, so why are made all this 36 players? Why didnt u make 10-12? Or if all players are going to use only Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, why did u make the whole roster? Lets start playing will vanilla version then. I think that ITST main theme is REALISM and see a draw of 68 - 15 Federers and 14 Djokovics, it isnt very realistic, right?

[costiiforzaa]

@ Dimitrov :Well it's not realistic to intentionnaly start a match or a tournament with some handicap. In real life, Djokovic, when he plays a guy ranked beyond 100th, he doesn't play with a ping pong racket just to balance the match and create some incertainy.

That's why this is not realistic at all to create spme randomless. This really depends on ITST philosophy : if the goal is to set up a competition as Vmoe said, then this idea is irrelevant because it makes the competition rigged.
An example : a few days ago I played an Haas vs a Verdasco, I lost 6-1. I asked for a rematch with an other character --> I took Djokovic, he kept Verdasco, I won 6-3.

Now if the goal is to have fun and we don't care about results, well Fez idea is a good one. As Davis Cup would be something between pure competition as the ITST tour seems to be, and fun with some teamate funky patriotism, jokes provocation etc, it's perhaps the only acceptable proposition. That's why I suggested to only use the players of your own country

In the roster there are the best 36 players who are very balanced right now, so there is not going to be a big problem. And about the idea I said it will be very great to see in for example AEGON only the players who are playing in these tournament. Because if there is no change Djokovic and Federer will have a dominating in our tour the whole season! But if we make this change. There will be a big difference. We will have some dominating from Isner, Cilic and etc. (good grass players) who are dominating in this small 250 grass and hard court tournaments. There will be more more FUN, REALISM and CHALLENGE! There will be not the whole year the same DJOKOVIC and FEDERER, because there is no FUN and REALISM.