2nd Serve w/ Acceleration

[PO]

Dear All,

I've been playing this game just occasionally for around 3 years. I've tried the tour but it was hard for me to find enough free time to play it and be continuous so I stopped. As a tennis lover, now I'm playing online matches only for fun and I've no goals.
Still my problem is, most of the opponents (especially the ones with low ELO) I play with use acceleration w/ the 2nd serve and it is really annoying. As I'm only playing friendlies I know it is not a big issue but the success rate on those 2nd serves are hilarious. I would say it is over %90. For example, I just completed a friendly game and my opponent had no double faults, landing 180-200km/h 2nd serves all the time which is no fun. I'm not sure if this is the right place for this topic or it is already discussed among the community but this is something that should be taken care of as returning serve is the most difficult shot to get used to and 2nd serves are generally the opportunuties for lets say average players like me. I'm not saying that it should not be banned forever, but in reality no one will try it when he/she is facing a break point, right?
As this is a great simulation game and the closest one to real tennis experience, I think an adjustment is required.
What are your thoughts?

[Yippie-Caiay]

I think it's as fair/unfair as if someone were to do it in real life. I don't know how your opponent was able to get in 90% of acceleration second serves, I don't think that was the case, and if it was, then it was a one time thing. In the same way he might save a break point he can lose it with a double fault.

Think about it this way, if I forced you to double serve with acceleration, would you find it easier or harder to beat me? It's proved not to work, that's why everyone, real life or game, second serves the way they do. And that's why those idiots have low ELO .

[PO]

Thanks for the reply. What I was trying to say was, as the success rate of that shot is very high, players are not scared to use that shot if they are feeling they are owned at most of the rallies. With this way they get the upperhand against players with not so good at returning like me. Like I already mentioned, this is not a huge issue, especially for me as I'm not playing the tour.

You can also think this way though, a good player can also use this glitch I would say, to have more success as it is not as punishing as it should be.

I find this as an in-game failure that should be readjusted and wanted to see other users experience and opinions on this and nothing else.

Once again thank you for your experience.

[kenos]

What you are talking about is related only to average/low experienced players, who haven't managed to hit a decent (not accel) 2nd serve yet and for this reason they try to exploit character's ability on serve. With Roddick or Anderson, to mention a couple of big serves, if one handles the timing well he could get a consistent shot without accel already. Why? Because it's a question of timing, you hit the ball according to the gesture and - if accelerating on 2nd serve - you're aware of the risk; unless you're one of the aforementioned players who usually smash the racket after a likely double fault, of course. It isn't something you can ban to suit people in trouble with return.

[PO]

Of course it is related to average/low experienced (low ELO) players and I've already stated this in my first post. I don't remember saying that shot should be banned, I just think a readjustment will be better for everyone, especially for begginers to experience more rallies rather than having a 2-3 shot rally average in a match.

You already proved my case here saying "these players use acceleration on 2nd serve to exploit their character's ability on serve because they haven't managed to hit a decent 2nd serve w/o acceleration yet", because they don't feel they need to as it is not as punishing as it should be. If it was, I believe at some point they will learn how to use their 2nd serve w/o accel effectively.

I'm quite sure this is such a negligible glitch for top players like you but I think it is a problem for average/low experienced players which I believe there is a good amount.

Still, thanks for the comments and for your experience.

[inseedious]

I can see what you mean. I've been facing many opponents, even at top levels, using b1 (i.e. normal shot) second serves, though rarely acceleration ones.

It sometimes feels unfair, because many times they're just able to serve 180 kph second serves without making any double fault. While I'm sure that b1 2nd serves success rate should be adjusted, it's also true that:
- according to the game mechanics, I remember that b1 second serves are more tiring, to balance things;
- it happened many and many times that my opponent ended up making a double fault on break points and/or at 40/40.

[kenos]

You already proved my case here saying "these players use acceleration on 2nd serve to exploit their character's ability on serve because they haven't managed to hit a decent 2nd serve w/o acceleration yet", because they don't feel they need to as it is not as punishing as it should be. If it was, I believe at some point they will learn how to use their 2nd serve w/o accel effectively

If one wants to level up, he will be forced to learn to hit a proper 2nd serve i.e. without accel already. Nothing original but still an unspoken rule, which comes by playing and trying to change gameplan according to the opponent's gimmicks; there can be who is good at keeping the rhythm for a long period during a match - I've played a best of five on grass, versus a player using Raonic and going big on 2nd: it can be tiring at times, but it is also challenging - yet it won't serve him well enough to win anyway, if you are ready to try something to make him get uncomfortable (like returning on baseline, or slice - regular one, not cheesy bullshit - return). Getting smarter in game will help you (like anyone else) more than asking for "punishing" conditions over a single aspect.

[PO]

Thanks both of you guys again for the comments.

Kenos: I don't know how and why you come up with suggesting something over another while my intention was totally different.

1. Getting smarter in game play over 2. Asking for punishment?

I believe I already made myself clear a few times that I've no goals (not playing the tour, no ELO concerns etc.) but to have fun + stated that this serve thing is already a not big issue. I know it can be worked through using different tactics.

In the tour there are some rules like; serving from the far corners is forbidden while the game gives you the ability, but it is forbidden because it is unreal, right? And I believe, everybody can adjust to this, develop different tactics and get smart if it was allowed. These rules are written so that everyone can enjoy a more realistic experience and my point is exactly the same, it is unreal to serve a 2nd serve with such success rate.

Best,

[kenos]

Because you brought your personal experience with "big 2nd serves" as an affordable piece of data: 90% success rate is the only unreal thing, actually. That's what usually happens when OP hasn't managed to reach a satisfying level yet, he talks about an unfortunate/unpleasant experience with an opponent on his lucky day like it's a trend, something to fix. Like there isn't a community digging the heck out of the game before every update in order to find things to improve. This ain't among them, and that is why I've suggested that stuff. Anyway wide serve is often used irl, especially when having to hit a kick serve on clay, so in this case it's all about preventing people to exploit (correctly this time)/balancing rather than enhancing realism, which has reached its limit a long time ago.

[Yippie-Caiay]

I just checked the TE manual and it is true, you get on average 85% success with b1 serves, as long as your consistency matches your power (which is most of the cases in the ITST roster). But then again, if that was unrealisitc, it should be changed for first serves too, and I don't see that changing after 6 years of everyone playing this game.

OP talked about 90% with acceleration serves, that would be almost impossible, taking into account that the average success with acceleration is 70%.

[PO]

Kenos, it is either me who cannot explain or you who don't want to understand. It doesn't matter if the success rate is 90% or 20%. The 2nd serve around 180s and more is unreal even on low percentage success rate especially when used consistently. Can you agree on this argument?

My own experience whether being an unlucky one or not has nothing to do with this. You're simply stuck on certain things about my experience and my level and try to treat me like I don't know anything about the game. You're not putting any facts about the issue and can easily say that there is already a bunch of people who are making the game more realistic with every new patch like I don't know that. I'm not criticizing anyone here and don't understand why you do that against me.

Yippie, thank you for the information.

Cheers,

[inseedious]

Kenos, it is either me who cannot explain or you who don't want to understand. It doesn't matter if the success rate is 90% or 20%. The 2nd serve around 180s and more is unreal even on low percentage success rate especially when used consistently. Can you agree on this argument?

Have to disagree here. There are many tennis professionals intentionally taking big risks with their second serve, also in terms of speed. It also depends on the matchup, on a case by case basis. It's just the success rate often being unrealistic, that's all.

[PO]

Maybe my sentence was not strong enough. Of course it is not unreal when used occasionally and of course some players do take risks depending on the situation. We've seen Raonic doing it many times. The problem is, it is not realistic both for using it consistently and have the chance to have a good success rate. That's all.

Again like I mentioned a couple of times this is not a big issue but a readjustment might be a good idea IMO.

[inseedious]

Maybe my sentence was not strong enough. Of course it is not unreal when used occasionally and of course some players do take risks depending on the situation. We've seen Raonic doing it many times. The problem is, it is not realistic both for using it consistently and have the chance to have a good success rate. That's all.

Again like I mentioned a couple of times this is not a big issue but a readjustment might be a good idea IMO.

Maybe I wasn't clear myself this time. As I wrote, I agree the success rate should be worked on, but you can't deny players to use risky second serves consistently. There are many professional, especially in WTA (Sharapova, Giorgi, etc.) but also in ATP, who use consistently risky second serves, as standard tactics or to deal with specific opponents. For example, a player with a low resistance would find it a great way to shorten rallies, and I don't see anything unfair in that.

I'm sure that tweaking the success rate of second serves with b1 or accel would definitely lower their use rate. That's all.

[kenos]

You're not putting any facts about the issue

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.