movement online matches

[Elias]

Also Rusty have a read at Richie post here : viewtopic.php?p=250419#p250419

It won't give you a secret, but it's a good read relating his progression and his views at what differentiates an average player from a top one.

[djarvik]

Can't help with your demos personally, I've no access to TE nowadays.

What is weird in your situation Djarvik is that you proved in TS3 you have the reflexes to play very well in these tennis games... Perhaps you don't progress because you don't want to apply the real life principles !

Meh, nothing weird at all, you just want to make it weird so you can diminish my opinion by virtue of presenting yourself as a better player. Classical for you when you run out of arguments. You start "circle argument", "deflection arguments", "throw backs" to your achievements, then you sorta "agree on the original premises" once the discussion does not go your way, than "mud" it some more.....so it becomes one big "salad" that you can interpret.

My reasons are quite obvious for not getting better - my son was born just when TE started. Lack of time, sleep, dedication and desire to get better. I play purely for fun at this point. With TS3 I had a lot of time and I also happen to like the game more then I do TE. That helps motivation to actually get better. Frankly, I am enjoying the level I have now.

As for the rest of your reply, I don't see how this contradicts what I said at all. You basically saying: "make sure your timing and positioning is good and don't make silly errors and bad decisions - and you will be a good player" WOW PROFOUND man, really something!

.....and on top of all you basically saying EXACTLY what I am suggesting:

"In the past, I made sessions with some people and I stopped the game every-time I saw something wrong, to explain the problem in live... It's hard to reproduce that in this forum unfortunately."

So once again, a bunch of rhetoric and a denial of practical help via:

Can't help with your demos personally, I've no access to TE nowadays.

Anyway, this is going nowhere C4iLL. Although I am enjoying it

[Rusty96]

When I read your posts I feel like you don't understand what my problem is. You always say things like "this makes the difference between a top player and an average one".
As I have already posted I loss clearly against average players.
And I don't think I have to run more than my opponents because I play to passive.
I always play really agressive, put pressure on my opponent. It is often the case that I make the opponents run but when they play 1 shot which is placed good I can't get there because I am so slow.
So I don't aim to move like a top player, I just want to move like a good average player and therefore I hope for some advice maybe with the help of the match replays I posted earlier.

Reminder: I play with Controller and move with analog stick.

[C4iLL]

@Djarvik : I enjoy it too that's why I come back on this topic on a regular basis !

So far I admit one thing : you're clearly the king when it's about to deform the answers of other people, you're an alchemist. My answer was useful because, if you don't do the mistakes I mentioned, you will start playing well... It's not my fault if you can't help yourself to do these precise mistakes :/
- About your TS3 skills, you're once again deforming the spirit of the sentence (or misunderstood it) : I just said you have the potential to play well in any tennis games if you are good at that one.
There was nothing negative here... I can't say you're paranoid but I'm again a victim of your legendary bad faith... Every disagreement we had, it often turns as battle / a game with you, I got it a long time ago and it's okay for me, I know the rules... But the best and unique asset you use in these wars is the bad faith like your last message shows !

Now to Rusty, I understand your critics, I will try to make something visual to help you. It's the week-end, I have time to do that and it can be interesting for other players.

[Rusty96]

Thank you !

[djarvik]

@C4iLL - if your answer was useful - Rusty would not continue to point out it was not.

I have no clue what "bad faith" you speak of.

Once again you bounce into another direction. I clearly gave you an answer to the TS3 question, there is nothing really left to say on the subject. So why bring it up again?

...and once again after the the rhetoric you agree with me and going to provide something tangible, visual

I did play a set with Rusty yesterday and hopefully helped him realize a few things that helped. No matter your theories and "play with no mistakes" suggestions - he was using a 3rd person camera and a ball that is far too small for a beginner. So not knowing that, you could write novels here on forum suggesting hypothetical common sense solutions - but unless you come in hands on - you will fail as a teacher/coach, but I already know you failed because of this:

My answer was useful because, if you don't do the mistakes I mentioned, you will start playing well... It's not my fault if you can't help yourself to do these precise mistakes :/

[C4iLL]

Ok here's a quick analysis about a rally we had with Richie in the World tour finals 2013.

https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/6Z2MC5D43 (password = ITST).

[djarvik]

Ok here's a quick analysis about a rally we had with Richie in the World tour finals 2013.

https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/6Z2MC5D43 (password = ITST).

Well done. No sarcasm here, just admiration.

Although it still doesn't show "how" to move - it does show "where" to move. Certainly a helpful presentation for Rusty as he often stay after the shot - admiring it, instead of moving into position. And he also picks the direction to move before the hos after recovery....needs to be more patient.

For myself, I already do that....but my execution of "Up/Down" and "diagonal" movement is bad. Not for lack of knowledge, just lack of recognition of depth sometimes....well and practice of course.

C4iLL - I think this is the best post you made in your ITST history, no joke

[Robbin92]

This is why you never won vs Richie C4, you should go to the net far more often!
You became too pushery

Anyways, it is a solid analysis of the point. However, is this how you learned to move? By keeping track of all this angles and calculating opponents shots all the time?

For me, it is just something I do with my hands which seems logical regarding my own positioning anticipating on the developments in a rally. It is sort of an automatic process, which is why it is hard to explain to other people.

[Rusty96]

Thanks for the analysis C4ill! It is really useful indeed
But one question still remains, how do top players move so fast? With Auto step back or another trick?

Btw: Do you mostly hit "normal" shots or shots with acceleration in an average situation?

[Rob92]

.

[C4iLL]

Well, it was just an application of the mistakes I mentioned in this thread, but I admit it's easier to understand when it's visual like.
Anyway, you can see how correlated the movements are to your attacks : the guy who attacks well doesn't need to move a lot. But if he doesn't do perfectly the few steps he has to do, his aim/shots will be less efficient, and he will gradually lose the control of the point...

Clearly, if you want to win in TE, be obsessed about the time you let and take to your opponent.

To get the very high level, you must CONSTANTLY punish your opponent who send you a short ball : entering in the court as soon as possible (to shorten his repositioning time and give yourself more angles) and put him outside the court with a shot near the lines.
I think all the ITST top10 play like that, more or less : they have a great defense, they wait for a mistake (a ball a bit shorter) and they start the agression.
Generally in 1 or 2 shots, the point is over against guys outside top10.

To do that, watch constantly the rebound trace on the ground. Richie-Berdych is a very good example of that, if you can see him play, he will often punish you if you send him a short ball, he enters in the court like a Monster and destroys you It displayed a big sensation of power back then !

Also, when you hit the ball, try to avoid as much as possible the zone that I called "the middle of angles possibilities" in the presentation : if the guy is well positioned, he will indeed have a lot of time to charge, it's not what you want... If you aim the lines, he will send you a neutral shot because of a lack of time, that'd start your domination.

@Robbin : like you it was natural (in both real life & game), no calculations at all, but I read some stuff about tennis theory by curiosity to understand the concept and perhaps improve (when I stopped playing with Llodra).
I think VMoe know these theoretical stuff too. You can find videos on youtube that explain this concept (tennis geometry and its territorial aspect). All the pro players and good players in real life apply it obviously. It's actually the key to run as less as you can and remain fresh

And you're definitely right about why I never beat richie, it's partly because I was absolutely not confident in my net play. This is also why you were a danger for him last season, mastering perfectly these things (you were by far the best net player of 2014 in my opinion).
So I spent my time hitting the good zones, generally dominating, but at the end Richie, vramvrim or pidzi won, because they were more patient, waiting for a wrong side selection or a UE. In 2014 I was more in that style, hence improving the results.

But as I said, going at the net is not the only option : if you're in total control of the game, you can cut time to your opponent by going more inside the court and get winners from baseline against anybody. It's really lethal, but very hard to achieve regularly. It requires to be focused on the rebound, so a total concentration, great reflexes, good eye, coordination.. .

[C4iLL]

Thanks for the analysis C4ill! It is really useful indeed
But one question still remains, how do top players move so fast? With Auto step back or another trick?

Btw: Do you mostly hit "normal" shots or shots with acceleration in an average situation?

It depends what you call "an average situation" and it depends on your character. For instance with Hewitt (which I'm not specialist of) I guess it's more efficient to hit normal shots by tapping the button instead of charging. But Elias or other guys here know better the mechanism of Hewitt than me.

With Nadal, it's better to hit a Spin Counter (tap your spin button instead of charging) or a charged Spin, or a Short Acceleration from FH. When Richie won Madrid last year with Nadal, he was constantly running around his BH for instance... Whereas we saw in the presentation that it makes a Federer lose time... So it really depends.

But Globally speaking, you want to get DEPTH to put your opponent far from the baseline to decrease his angles possibilities. Try yourself on a paper : the more you are in the court, the larger are your angles possibilities. So to neutralize your opponent, put him far from baseline with a Deep Counter shot (if you're in defense), or a Shoulder Acceleration (lot of depth) or a Short acceleration (he will have less angles).

Very honestly, I never understood the auto step back or other stuff people often talk about so I can't answer. I only know the auto positioniong on serve return (and I'm against it ).

[Rusty96]

I mostly play with Federer until now. For me it is tough to get free points out of serve with Lleyton and tougher to put the opponent in defence. I was better in that when testing Ferrer.

I yesterday tried to play like you presented with you animation and it helped me really. Thanks.
But still I often don't get to the ball allthough the opponent is not really in the offence neither is the shot placed too good, so it often just feels like I would be way slower than the top players. Additionally I almost never get to a drop shot even when I stand near to the baseline and anticipate the drop shot early. It feels like my player would not really run at full speed.

Thank you for your help so far, I really aprecciate this.

[Richie1308]

What a slide C4ill, your explanations were really good and I wouldn't have said any better even for my side I'm supposed to know perfectly. And to discover the end of the point was really funny

If you want to improve your moving, remember what the goal is in very simple terms :
1 : Moving as fast as possible to the ball
2 : Get the perfect position to hit the ball
3 : Charge your shot as much as possible

Try with some practice sets to only concentrate on those points, anf first of all to never go to the wrong side enough so you wont mistake anymore. That allows you to simplify the problem : is the ball going right or left ? (for the moment getting a dropshot is the least of your problems). You'll think later how to position yourself closer or farther to the baseline, first of all you need to get to the ball naturally without hesitation. And for that, your mind is what matters the most.
To me, you start to get to an interesting level when you are able to see things a very simple way after studying and understanding all the mechanics and the tools you have and master them properly.

This guides me to something that is super important as a step to see a real improvement in your game : know what to expect. Understand enough that it becomes natural at a point what your opponent can do in every situation. Because in a way this is like a fighting game : each one as 2 different characters with their qualities and defaults and you're fighting each other according to what the other do. To be able to react to what he does and have the good answer is the real basic of what you have to do. Then, at a good level, you'll be able naturally to feel what he wants to do to and get an extra advantage and that's the point where you feel very strong.

If I had to summarize, you can use the training room against the IA and see what you have to do to make a good shot in the most perfect conditions possible. Then, when you know what you want to do, wonder how to do it. And I insist, your thinking must go in this order. The problem is often that you try to find the way to do something but you don't even really know what you're trying to do. You have to be sure of what your goal is step by step if you want to improve your general level.

I point you back to the 3 steps I talked about earlier : moving is essential as it's the #1 part of what you have to do and without that the 2 other parts don't exist. When your opponent hits his shot, remember : either it goes right or left, that's the very first information you get and you have it really fast if you really look at the ball. Then understand how deep the ball will land so you know if you can go into the court or step backwards (For my side I especially changed the settings of my 3d camera so I could understand the fastest possible the deepness of the ball).

Then the position, you want to start aiming only when your position is perfect and where you want to be, even on defense ! (the capacity to hit a good shot in defense is your position, to get the best possible distance between you and the ball so you hit it with the middle of your racket at a good height. Remember that you don't have the time in this case to charge your shot so its quality depends completely on your placement).

And then you charge your shot and put the ball where you want, as close possible to the line without making the fault (on attack at least).

This is exactly my way of thinking on each ball I have to play in this exact order. Even with the offensive, if I see a short ball, I go into the court to get it at the best position I can have, and then I charge my shot. It's always better to have a good position and a fewer time to charge than charge long with an average positioning. It's really a step by step matter, you have to work on each of these steps one by one and master each of them perfectly separately, and then to be able to do them naturally on each ball. Also, think that you have to master whatever you use to play, be it a keyboard or a controller : you have to be able to go were you want and do what you want whenever you want. This is essential as the very first thing that links you to the videogame you're playing is that.

And as C4ill said, time is quality here : on each step the fewer time you use the best your shot and level will be. Thinking of going to the net and all other things only makes the difference once you do perfectly the 3 steps I talked about. Once you get this right, you can consider yourself a pretty good player, really. It's only here that the difference between a good player and a player that has something better and can hope for the very top can be seen : after mastering the basic things and do them perfectly, what will be his strategy ? Can he use the netplay at his advantage ? Can he show himself strong mentally ? Can he anticipate and read in his opponent mind ? Can he play the shot he needs at the good moment ? All those sorts of questions, you only have those once you don't have to wonder about what you have to do to play good and make good shots. If you have to think about your execution in a game, it's impossible to do great about the strategy and other things, for one simple reason : how to know if what you did wrong was your strategy or your execution ?

It's like in reality, when you play bad and don't feel your shots, your goal is, as fast as possible, to get back to your basics and find back your good shots, not to become crazy and try some weird things to kill yourself more. But if you feel great, play good shots and yet don't find the solution, it's here you'll think about your strategy for real.

May the genkidama be with you.