Topspin returning
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by Moralspain » Wed, 21 Sep 2011 23:08
Never underestimate the pain of a person, because in all honesty, everyone is struggling. Some people are just better at hiding it than others.
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by tigerofintegrity » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:15
Well I don't know what happened during your match Murmeltier obviously but I did play Omidje just a couple of days ago in a tournament match. He was 100% fair, played far fairer than a lot of people I've played here on ITST in fact. I definitely didn't have any problems with his returning. I mean, he may have hit one or two, I don't even know which shows that it was a complete non-factor in the match.
Like I said, I don't know what went on in your match but if it was happening a lot and during important points only, that would be suspicious. However, I will echo the point that Omidje brings up, I mostly use topspin returns too and I don't know how to prevent the so called glitch return either so I have noticed that in matches, it may happen several times. For me, obviously it's at completely random times and unintentional.
But I've never had a complaint about me glitch returning or at least I don't think I have. Nobody has ever mentioned it to me before. So I would be inclined to think that even if you're doing it by accident because you're not really sure how to prevent it, it shouldn't be happening frequently enough to cause the opponent any problems. Maybe Omidje's style of returning does just happen to cause glitch returns to happen more frequently, that I'm not sure but he is a nice, clean player so for me, I wouldn't see him doing it intentionally.
Like I said, I don't know what went on in your match but if it was happening a lot and during important points only, that would be suspicious. However, I will echo the point that Omidje brings up, I mostly use topspin returns too and I don't know how to prevent the so called glitch return either so I have noticed that in matches, it may happen several times. For me, obviously it's at completely random times and unintentional.
But I've never had a complaint about me glitch returning or at least I don't think I have. Nobody has ever mentioned it to me before. So I would be inclined to think that even if you're doing it by accident because you're not really sure how to prevent it, it shouldn't be happening frequently enough to cause the opponent any problems. Maybe Omidje's style of returning does just happen to cause glitch returns to happen more frequently, that I'm not sure but he is a nice, clean player so for me, I wouldn't see him doing it intentionally.
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by Rob ITST » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:13
I am downloading the video now. I will look at it, and so will some other hosts, and then we will know for sure if unfair play was used. Until then, there's not much point in discussing this further.
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by Rob ITST » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:34
I want to add one more thing:
If the video shows that these were fair returns, then Murmeltier was still doing the right thing to report it. And if they are glitch returns, then Omidje will now know that he is doing something that causes them.
I really, really do not want to see this continue as a fight. It would be much better if you guys would help each other instead of making accusations - if Omidje is glitch returning, explain to him how to avoid it - if Murmeltier is backing up way behind the baseline on fair returns, help him avoid that. Fighting doesn't help anyone.
When I started playing the first TopSpin game, I was doing a few things that were cheesy - but I had no idea it was cheesy. Luckily, we had some great members who explained to me why it was cheesy. I'd like to see a lot more of that now.
If the video shows that these were fair returns, then Murmeltier was still doing the right thing to report it. And if they are glitch returns, then Omidje will now know that he is doing something that causes them.
I really, really do not want to see this continue as a fight. It would be much better if you guys would help each other instead of making accusations - if Omidje is glitch returning, explain to him how to avoid it - if Murmeltier is backing up way behind the baseline on fair returns, help him avoid that. Fighting doesn't help anyone.
When I started playing the first TopSpin game, I was doing a few things that were cheesy - but I had no idea it was cheesy. Luckily, we had some great members who explained to me why it was cheesy. I'd like to see a lot more of that now.
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by omidje90 » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:54
Rob ITST wrote:I want to add one more thing:
If the video shows that these were fair returns, then Murmeltier was still doing the right thing to report it. And if they are glitch returns, then Omidje will now know that he is doing something that causes them.
I really, really do not want to see this continue as a fight. It would be much better if you guys would help each other instead of making accusations - if Omidje is glitch returning, explain to him how to avoid it - if Murmeltier is backing up way behind the baseline on fair returns, help him avoid that. Fighting doesn't help anyone.
When I started playing the first TopSpin game, I was doing a few things that were cheesy - but I had no idea it was cheesy. Luckily, we had some great members who explained to me why it was cheesy. I'd like to see a lot more of that now.
You are absolutely right, it is never my intention to start an fight bro. If you've read my personal e-mail to you and my comments in this topic, you got to admit that i am definatly not the guy who is looking for an fight..
Instead, after all this unfriendly nonsense that murmetilier has spoken about me, i don´t feel the need to be upset or anything, but i openend a topic to ask other opinions about glitchy returning and how to avoid that. Besides that i offered him an rematch and said to him that i will watch out for it.. So thats te reason that i can't understand how he can act like this, but i am not looking for an fight, or am upset at all. I am very curious what the video is telling you.. I will be waiting
P.S. if it said that i am returning glitchy, what i have my doubts about it, i still need a solution to figure uit how to topspin return without doin it glithy, because thats the main reason of this topic
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by Rob ITST » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 02:00
I didn't mean to say that you were looking for a fight, if that's how it came across. I was talking more to everyone else who decided they needed to comment - I didn't find that any of those were helpful to this situation, or to ITST in general.
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by omidje90 » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 02:14
yeah i agree, the only reason that i opened this topic was to figure out how to return topspin balls fairly.. If i read back al the replies i still got no answerRob ITST wrote:I didn't mean to say that you were looking for a fight, if that's how it came across. I was talking more to everyone else who decided they needed to comment - I didn't find that any of those were helpful to this situation, or to ITST in general.
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by Tamthewasp » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:26
I was only having a bit of banter with my FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT comment, only fun intended.
On a serious note though Rob you said if these were fair returns murneltier was still right to report. Please correct me if im wrong has nt djarvik said before that false accusations are just as bad if not worse than playing cheesy and has nt someone already been suspended for submitting video evidence that the hosts said was nt cheesy play. So my point I thonk is that murmeltier may think cheese has occured and reported video evidence then may incure a suspension if host/s disagree. Thus more people may be less inclined to to give video evidence incase they themselves are punishment.. I may be wrong but would be good if you could clear it up.
On a serious note though Rob you said if these were fair returns murneltier was still right to report. Please correct me if im wrong has nt djarvik said before that false accusations are just as bad if not worse than playing cheesy and has nt someone already been suspended for submitting video evidence that the hosts said was nt cheesy play. So my point I thonk is that murmeltier may think cheese has occured and reported video evidence then may incure a suspension if host/s disagree. Thus more people may be less inclined to to give video evidence incase they themselves are punishment.. I may be wrong but would be good if you could clear it up.
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by Rob ITST » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:49
Two completely different situations.
In the first case, the claim was that the opponent hit "200 drop shots", but the video showed it was not true at all. There is no way you could think your opponent hit 200 drop shots unless he really hit a lot of drop shots - it was clearly an intentional lie.
In this case, the claim is that the opponent hit glitch returns. If you don't know the difference, you could easily think that a deep topspin return is a glitch return - it is an honest mistake.
One is a clear lie, the other is an honest mistake.
So, I'll rephrase it: You should always report cheese, just don't lie about it.
In the first case, the claim was that the opponent hit "200 drop shots", but the video showed it was not true at all. There is no way you could think your opponent hit 200 drop shots unless he really hit a lot of drop shots - it was clearly an intentional lie.
In this case, the claim is that the opponent hit glitch returns. If you don't know the difference, you could easily think that a deep topspin return is a glitch return - it is an honest mistake.
One is a clear lie, the other is an honest mistake.
So, I'll rephrase it: You should always report cheese, just don't lie about it.
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by KDZaster » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:27
This is a perfect example of a problem we have.
I don't know how to DO a glitch return, so I dont know how to prevent it.
It's like going to a foreign country and they throw you in jail because you can't wear a color you're wearing, but they wont tell you what color that is. You were wearing blue jeans, a red shirt, white socks, black shoes, a silver necklace and had a dark green coat on.
You don't know what did it. You don't know what to do. You're basically being told by the authorities "You should know what not to do, we're not telling you what you did, but we're ok with punishing you."
Someone make a video or something of how to do it so we know how to not do it.
I don't know how to DO a glitch return, so I dont know how to prevent it.
It's like going to a foreign country and they throw you in jail because you can't wear a color you're wearing, but they wont tell you what color that is. You were wearing blue jeans, a red shirt, white socks, black shoes, a silver necklace and had a dark green coat on.
You don't know what did it. You don't know what to do. You're basically being told by the authorities "You should know what not to do, we're not telling you what you did, but we're ok with punishing you."
Someone make a video or something of how to do it so we know how to not do it.
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by LokiSharpShootr » Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:32
If you see youre doing it a lot, avoid aiming to the server with deep top spin shots.
I dont know how to do it, so i avoid using top spin deep returns.
I dont know how to do it, so i avoid using top spin deep returns.
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