Sh0Case v ILuvBillVal - Wimbledon Semi Final

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Sh0Case v ILuvBillVal - Wimbledon Semi Final

Postby Sh0Case » Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmxymHQe ... e=youtu.be

Skip to 12:11 for when I'm actually at the console:oops:

One of the toughest tests I've had since the Australian Open, I also think I played as well as I ever have in an important match. This match should be watched in full because not many videos are of other other top players on Xbox, but ILuvBillVal is a legend and he should be recognised for his high level. IMO he is the best I have played since the Australian Open (PS3 included, excluding Fifa Tee). If he can continue to play regularly on ITST he will disrupt the dominance at the top of the Xbox tour. I suggest any PS3 players check his year results before commenting solely based on this match too.

One thing I must ask ILuvBillVal, do you do control returns? I also noticed you have a start position before returning a serve, but you tend to take a step to the side before hitting the ball, how does that work for you? Better depth? More accuracy?
IMO you have the best return of serve on ITST.
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Postby ILuvBillVal » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:14

I pretty much never do control returning. As far as the movement I never thought about it as much as just doing it. However I think it (at least in my mind) allows me to adjust to the serves more quickly. For instance I have the momentum moving toward the line if it's inside but if it's outside then I'm close enough to it where I can adjust quickly to reach it. This is the most logical answer I could come up with.

Also thank you for the praise. I enjoy playing ts4 a lot and wish more decent players both past and present would compete.
Norberto H or bust.
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Postby C4iLL » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:11

It's funny how Sh0case studies his matches to better understand how the opposition plays. That's the trademark of a professionnal I must admit that.

The problem is : when would he prove he's good outside TS4 ? For me, Bill, and Norberto will still be higher in the hierarchy of ITST until he reaches at least the top5 of Tennis Elbow. Because these guys were both good in two different tennis gameplay.

And we have all seen that, with the previous patch, Sh0case lost matches in straight recently... Looks like the guy is just good with one single control shot gameplay : except that, he sux, as Fifa Tee...

About the return I agree, I was maybe the first to point out the quality of return of Bill.
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Postby Gotenkssan » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:30

C4iLL wrote:
And we have all seen that, with the previous patch, Sh0case lost matches in straight recently... Looks like the guy is just good with one single control shot gameplay : except that, he sux, as Fifa Tee...



Yes he lost matches.... but that is not fair to compare. He and Fifa spent many time training this game, so its just natural that they improved. Even if the patch wouldn't exist they would have climbed to the top. It's not their fault that many top players left the TS4 court...
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Postby Sh0Case » Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:46

C4iLL wrote:It's funny how Sh0case studies his matches to better understand how the opposition plays. That's the trademark of a professionnal I must admit that.

The problem is : when would he prove he's good outside TS4 ? For me, Bill, and Norberto will still be higher in the hierarchy of ITST until he reaches at least the top5 of Tennis Elbow. Because these guys were both good in two different tennis gameplay.

And we have all seen that, with the previous patch, Sh0case lost matches in straight recently... Looks like the guy is just good with one single control shot gameplay : except that, he sux, as Fifa Tee...

About the return I agree, I was maybe the first to point out the quality of return of Bill.

I wouldn't say I study any of my matches really, I just evaluate during and after matches TBH. For a while now, most of my matches get deleted after being recorded, I think I understand the game as well as anybody so I only have an interest in showing matches v top players or watching myself against Fifa Tee.

Why do you ignore the fact I beat Mr Berson on the old patch in my first tournament when he was on a huge winning streak?
Would you like to see the video?

I lost one match recently in straights on the old patch, the other I lost in 5.
I don't buy your theory TBH, ILuvBillVal's impressive stats pretty much started in January (on the latest patch). I wasn't aware Norberto was ever a top player on TS4, 1 appearance in a final etc.
The fact that you ever felt to compare me/Fifa Tee with those ITST legends says enough really.

No comment on the actual video C4ill :shock:
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Postby ILuvBillVal » Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:56

With respect to Norberto he has actually been around here much longer than me. He was successful in the earlier top spin games up to 3. So that's where his legacy came from with an honorable mention in 4 I suppose. But yeah I'd imagine he's probably got one foot in the hall of fame by now.

Old fart.
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Postby C4iLL » Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:52

I haven't time yet to watch it, i'll do it soon.

Anyway about your victory against Berson you're right. But at that time he wasn't the best : the best by FAR of the world was Loki. For instance, he beat you at Montreal if I remember well, just after your victory against Berson.

He even won the US Open, so he's the best player of the previous update. In fact he stopped playing when the new patch was uploaded ^^

About Norberto, he reached semi of Wimbledon 2011 if I remember well, and lost in a close 5 sets matchs against Joker. He also pushes Loki in 5 sets at US Open.
With the last update he's not at that level anymore, but he was among the good ones before I think. So I included him with Bill.
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Postby Baghdad Baghdatis » Sat, 21 Jul 2012 16:27

There seems to be a considerable amount of sweeping statements made in these forums regarding legacy of players, TS4 and comparisons across the different topspin platforms, most of it very ill founded.

Taking TS4 specifically I am sorry to say that it is very difficult for any logical person to try and prove a players worth. Despite all the uproar about Shocase and Fifa Tee the reality is that yes, they are very good players of this edition. However, this is no argument in that there simply is not the competition in the ladder because the game is so flawed, before and after the glitch.

In TS3, for example, the top 20-30 where top class players and there was a significant amount of talent floating around after that, kind of part time players who could pick up and play and win big. The game simply had sustainability. When TS4 got announced there was massive interest and ALL the legends of previous topspin games, including myself were onboard with our sleeves rolled up. So why was it that so very quickly, after even 3-4 months, did everyone loose interest? Because the game is terrible, the phrase "you can't polish a turd" springs to my mind.

In TS4 the game is dominated by circa 4 players, who granted are as skilled as any of the TS series guns, but beneath that there is nothing, no regular players, no big draws, no interest in match reports, no real interesting rivalries, drought on the forums. The law of reason would imply that all big players are big because A) They are gifted at video games B) The game is good so they invest the time to be match fit and competitive. I am afraid to say that point B is pretty much non existent and therefore it should come as no surprise that people are not signing up and the numbers and interest has all but gone. Therefore for me, whilst Fifa & shocase are gobbling up the titles it is sad to say not that impressive if you put it into perspective because, by no fault of their own, there is no challenge.

What Norberto did in TS3 will never be met, he was the stand out player of that game hands down, like his style or not. There were tons of amazing players chewing at his ankles but he was consistent and beat off challenges and attempts to be dethroned a number of times but to no avail. The market of competition was fierce, and people gave a damn, and played week in week out. For me Shocase and Fifa came at a time when no one gave a screw and therefore with no disrespect and again no fault of their own cannot be awarded any gold status apart from cleaning up a heavy weight division that stinks, just like current era boxing.
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Postby djarvik » Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:14

You are very right, I agree with you.

One only needs to look at Norberto's scorelines, or scorelines in general in TS3. Norby won in tie breaks or one break sets, a LOT. There was ton of players who were great part-timers, journey man. There were also players that could get hot for a match or two, the Risk actually allowed that to happen. In TS4, this all is not possible, a better player by 2% will win the match with a score of 6-2 and 5% will dominate the game at 6-0. There is no way for a lesser player to change a mind set, alla Rosol VS Nadal, and basically go all out, thus either cutting down the match time with errors, or have a great day out of the blue and blowing away the Better player.

The opponents and haters of Risk can have their opinion, I don't mind, I also agree that the system was not the best POSSIBLE, but it was the best AVAILABLE on consoles.

Another point is defense. No one talks about players like Mack, he wasn't your flashy risker, but he got to top 10 purely on defense. Now, for the TS4 players that doesn't seem impressive, and that tells a big story. It is soo easy in TS4 to play defense, to get your racket on tons of balls...etc...in TS3, this was THE hardest style. Defenders who rarely risked got punished, a lot. They had to at least use the LT risk, to get some depth, or be a perfection of timing (Anteros).

All arounders like Picachu, myself, Baghdad and many others - also had their impact. You had to train and maintain and polish your skill daily to survive and win. This was no easy fit.

The people who never mastered risk, or I should not say mastered, rather embrace risk, never played TS3 as far as I am concerned. They always played TS4 even if it was called TS3 and when blown away by the players who are significantly better - cited risk as cheap. It was mind-boggling! They played half a game. That is like playing COD or Battlefield and only using a Pistol, complaining of all the rifle users.


Don't get me started on the movement and momentum. In TS3 you felt the "weight" of your player and swing. If the ball is short, guess what, you had to take the step or two forward - YOURSELF! ....the AI didn't SNAP you into position. Same for side movements or even moving backwards when the ball goes to your feet. You have no way to do that in TS4, your player either locks in on the spot, or is moved by AI. Just try, let go of your aiming-moving when you a good 4-5 steps away from the ball and keep the shot button pressed - your player in TS4 will complete the steps for you and will make a perfect contact with the ball if you simply let go of the shot button on time. In TS3, your player will stand on one place and swing the air. Only when you are one step away or closer, the locking begins - allowing for a much better movement, much free-er and user dependent.

Whoever thinks TS4 movement is better, was or is simply bad at doing two things at once: positioning your player and releasing on time. Simple. That is why you "like" the movement in TS4, because you don't actually MOVE!
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I can go on for hours.....starting to sound like a broken record by now. :oops:
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Postby ydderFx » Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:25

Couldn't have summed up TS3 better!
Last edited by ydderFx on Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby C4iLL » Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:29

In résumé : a shit game with shit players 8)

The problem in TS4 is that the gameplay is fashioned in a way that on almost every match, you know in advance who gonna win each or each match. No surprise can happen, especially since the control shots addict Fifa and Shocase came into the tour.

In fact, with the previous update, matches were more close, with sets won, lost, there were more surprise (just look the drawx of the US Open with a lot of 5 sets matches).

The previous update completely and definitely killed the game, and I'm sorry to say that but, you have your responsability in that Djarvik... ^^
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Postby Ali-Iqb93 » Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:11

Yes back few days during French open when server was down the game was much balanced. Control shots were not that much effective. Even now I believe if people stop using control shots then this game is much better and close to realism.
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Postby JohnCurveo » Sun, 22 Jul 2012 06:51

So why was it that so very quickly, after even 3-4 months, did everyone loose interest? Because the game is terrible, the phrase "you can't polish a turd" springs to my mind.


Hmm, new rules didn't help. In ps3 wt, there are more players now than 3-4 months ago. And top players are still playing each week. I dont think there is a lose of interest. New rules are very restrictive for new people coming here.
Usually a lot of people said "with this new rules old players will come again". Its just the opposite.
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Postby ydderFx » Sun, 22 Jul 2012 07:55

JohnCurveo wrote:
So why was it that so very quickly, after even 3-4 months, did everyone loose interest? Because the game is terrible, the phrase "you can't polish a turd" springs to my mind.


Hmm, new rules didn't help. In ps3 wt, there are more players now than 3-4 months ago. And top players are still playing each week. I dont think there is a lose of interest. New rules are very restrictive for new people coming here.
Usually a lot of people said "with this new rules old players will come again". Its just the opposite.


You have to understand that it has nothing to do with the rules. There were rules for TS3, we had to choose a player from a roster to play SIM tour which were very balanced. We had guidelines of 90/40 for the main tour.

The reason people lost interest is because they made the game too arcadey. Too pick up and play, no real depth to the mechanics of the game.
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Postby Ali-Iqb93 » Sun, 22 Jul 2012 11:18

The way I see it ts4 had more sign ups than ts3. I don't know how you guys see it that there is no interest in ts4. In fact ITST popularity grew because of ts4. There are 10-12 of my psn friends who played at ITST and left because they have some personal life matters to deal with. Not because they don't like ts4. If sign ups are decreasing then it's mainly because people can't find time to play or due to some other matters. I played ts3 myself for 2years. I don't think the game is bad. The reason why I think ts4 is better in terms of it's rallies. Everyones got his opinion. Control shots were not bad in the previous update but with the latest update people started to use them more and more and started to discover short crosses. Now it's everyone using them. When the game came out only few people knew how to execute them. Ts4 can be played in more than one way
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