92 speed monster

[DennieFR1908]

The last super annoying coach is getting more popular. The thing is, power is limited you cannat get it over 90 anymore but meanwhile you can still create 92 speed Slavina setups? Meaning no high power to counter the high speed? That's crazy, something should be done those Slavina setups seem to be 2 times as fast as Nadal in his good days. I already foresaw this would happen, I liked the new rules but I knew Slavina would be it's only downfall.


Soooo other oppinion's on this matter and response from staff would be appreciated.

[ICEMAN_9588]

I have to agree with you about that.
Always thought that speed beats power in TS4. To face a super-fast player, I think only 95-100 power is good, but when you're controlling the rally. And anyway, it's not always enough.
For instance, I had huge problems facing lauchas in WT with Slavina, cause he is a great user, and knows how to capitalize Slavina skills.

To me, the problem is not about the skills, but about the stats. If you want to avoid "extreme" players (something I still don't agree, but it's ok anyway), I think you must avoid extreme setups.
Not by banning this or that coach, but limiting this or that stat.

Rules say you must have one grey stats, 42 points at least.
I think rules should say something like: you can have all grey stats you want/you can have one grey stats, any points, no minimum (for instance, it could be even 38 or 40) but you must not have stats higher than 90, for instance (I said 90 just for saying, it could be any number).

PS Always considering that if I face a good user with a player trained by, let's say, Madr or Boskovic (that means speed over 70 or 80), if I use Rabari or Gallo, that can give me 88-90 power, it's still not always enough against great speed, great resistance and control shots.
Of course, and I repeat, I'm talking about good users able to capitalize all these skills.

[Obskur57]

I agree with Dennie.

In my case, I played Poumadoro with my usual Rabari. I lost 0/6 0/4 (retired). It was my first and last retirement for 2 years. I already lost against Likos or Fifa Tee 0/6 0/6 in the past but I could win a game or even had fun so I never gave up before.

The problem is 2 days before he played Newirth and I won 3 times. After losing against his Slavina, I played him once more and I decided to create a Slavina only to compete against him. It was my first Slavina match and I won the first set before losing the match (this match lasted almost 3 hours for 3 sets ... my QF at the USO in 5 sets 7/6 at the last one lasted 3h30...) I'm not a defensive player so I think there is a problem if I can be good so early with her. I don't want to imagine how long a Slavina's match in 5 sets can last.

The fact is defensive player allows people to make some mistakes they don't pay. You can miss a shot with 92 speed or with Nadal without losing the point. With every other players if you miss a timing and if your opponent is good enough, you are in a very bad situation. Playing defensive hides the real skills of people but the game is made like this we can't do anything with it. In this situation I think the only coach ables to beat a very good Slavina is Slavina. A bit like Welch before. So I think we can find solutions.

To me there are 2 solutions:

- to allow a few powerful setups
- to ban Slavina

I wonder what Slavina's users think about it.

[ICEMAN_9588]

What should they think? I mean, It's not their "fault".
Slavina not banned, so they use him. I've also tried him once, in Women's Tour, but I like to play offensive, he didn't fit my style, so no problem, I found out another one

[zaid137]

in my opinion .

put a number as a maximum speed limit ex:85 , as ICEMAN said , like there is 42 as the minimum number u could have .

or

simply Ban Slavina . it doesnt need skills to be used ,, just run run run and counter .

[JohnCurveo]

It's easy, delete 42 rule is the BEST option and make a max 90 stat like i said before. It's not the same 85 85 Rbari with 70 85 than banned one. Then i can return to babb, with 86 power 83 stamina it's VERY different (tested), so everyone will be happy lol

[ICEMAN_9588]

Better saying that, for sure, you will be happy

[Corbon]

Yesterday it was Welch, today it's Slavina, tomorrow it will be Barrero.

Edit: Under the current rules you can actually have a 96 Speed / 74 Reflex Slavina.

[ICEMAN_9588]

Of course there will always be something to complain about.
That's why I say "Eliminate all the rules! Let's play like World Tour! Let's play like far west!" XD

[Agassi_Return]

The last super annoying coach is getting more popular. The thing is, power is limited you cannat get it over 90 anymore but meanwhile you can still create 92 speed Slavina setups? Meaning no high power to counter the high speed? That's crazy, something should be done those Slavina setups seem to be 2 times as fast as Nadal in his good days. I already foresaw this would happen, I liked the new rules but I knew Slavina would be it's only downfall.


Soooo other oppinion's on this matter and response from staff would be appreciated.

You cant compare 90 power with 90 speed because speed do not give you:

- Hard serve and easier to make points with serve.
- You dont need to hit shots with perfect all the time. Hard shots even with bad timing are still good enough to make easy points. With power 60 every shot with bad timing could be lead to losing the point.
- Good und fast returns

What 90 Speed gives you is to reach shots of your opponent easier, play better control shots and stay in the rally BUT at the end you NEED to hit the ball with perfect or good timing otherwise you will lose easily against a power guy. Speed requires more skill to be at the top. If I am wrong then tell me why 80% of all WT Guys plays with >90 power?

[ICEMAN_9588]

You cant compare 90 power with 90 speed because speed do not give you:

1. Hard serve and easier to make points with serve.
2. You dont need to hit shots with perfect all the time. Hard shots even with bad timing are still good enough to make easy points. With power 60 every shot with bad timing could be lead to losing the point.
3. Good und fast returns

What 90 Speed gives you is to reach shots of your opponent easier, play better control shots and stay in the rally BUT at the end you NEED to hit the ball with perfect or good timing otherwise you will lose easily against a power guy. Speed requires more skill to be at the top. If I am wrong then tell me why 80% of all WT Guys plays with >90 power?

1. Yes, it's true. But consider that even with power 75 (and speed 70-75) you can hit 190-200 kmh serve. Ok, it's not very much, considering TS4 standards, but it's better than nothing.
2. Well, it's exactly the opposite. In WT I use a 100 power player, and when I face a good guy trained by Samala, Welch or other super-defensive coaches, I must hit the ball with perfect timing all the time.
Here's the reason: yes, I have 100 power, but they have enough speed to reach my shots, and mostly they have control shots (I can use them too, but they are less effective with a power player). This means if I hit the ball with good timing (that's still a good timing) they can shot-counter it with no problems: consequence is that they turn the rally from defensive to offensive, and my player has only 43 speed, which means I'm gonna lose the point, almost for sure.

And that's what happens when you have 100 power. If you have, let's say, 85-90 power, situation makes worse. Cause I have less power, and I'm still not enough fast (50-65, not more) to handle their offensive shots.
Cause yes, they may have 60 power, but this also means they have 80-90 (or more) wings, which means, in turn, very precise and accurate shots.
Not only, cause with control shots, you can find sensational street angles shots. And even if I have 60 speed, I can reach one, two, three shots, but then I must surrender.

Of course, I'm talking IN GENERAL. I don't always face great users with great skills, and when I do, sometimes I win, cause damn it, I'm pretty good too
But this is what I say when some guy insults me on line cause I use 100 power, more or less.

3. Are you serious about this? Speed doesn't give you good and fast returns?
So this means that power players have great returns? Really?
You hit a slice service, and the power player will be forced to return with slice too, if he wants to have some chance to win the rally.

And about WT, it's not so true that 80% uses power. Now the situation became more balanced.
You're right about perfect timing, for sure. But that counts for power players too. Rather, mostly for them.

[Agassi_Return]

1. Yes, it's true. But consider that even with power 75 (and speed 70-75) you can hit 190-200 kmh serve. Ok, it's not very much, considering TS4 standards, but it's better than nothing.

With Power 60-75 you dont have an accurate serve besides 1-2 coaches who no one use due to wing attributes.

2. Well, it's exactly the opposite. In WT I use a 100 power player, and when I face a good guy trained by Samala, Welch or other super-defensive coaches, I must hit the ball with perfect timing all the time.
Here's the reason: yes, I have 100 power, but they have enough speed to reach my shots, and mostly they have control shots (I can use them too, but they are less effective with a power player). This means if I hit the ball with good timing (that's still a good timing) they can shot-counter it with no problems: consequence is that they turn the rally from defensive to offensive, and my player has only 43 speed, which means I'm gonna lose the point, almost for sure.

Thats what I am talking about. If you face a good opponent who hits 95 % of all his shots by perfect timing its very hard to win against him with power settings. Especially when your serve sucks. BUT thats absolutely fair cause your opponent practiced the whole time to hit his shot with perfect timing. He earned his win and not playing that one trick serve tennis with 90 power settings.
I am 100% sure if you face an avarage opponent you will have more difficulties to win the match when he uses power setting instead of speed setting. Again: If am wrong why 95% of all 2k open players pick roddick instead of chang? You know i am right about that cause power and good serve gives you a huge advantage against avarage opponents who plays with speed settings.

And that's what happens when you have 100 power.

You also have serve 91/98. Thats the whole key to win games against good opponents who plays with speed settings. Using that unbalanced and unrealistic serve to hit the lines and serve with speed 230 on first and second serve. I called it one trick tennis. Thats the whole gameplan about all these power settings. Hit the lines on the serves for asses or make the point with the next shot.

3. Are you serious about this? Speed doesn't give you good and fast returns?

No, accurate returns due to wings but not powerfull returns.

So this means that power players have great returns? Really?

More powerfull which gives him the skill "diesel returner" for free. Not on Agassi level but still better as a player who have power 50 and reflex attribute 70.

[Corbon]

A high Reflex value will improve your returns, something that both OBL and DBL builds lack. TS4 limitations ftl. Still, for OBL, Neuwirth is a very flexible coach and so are Barrero and Dipesa for DBL.

[ICEMAN_9588]

With Power 60-75 you dont have an accurate serve besides 1-2 coaches who no one use due to wing attributes.

Absolutely right, but with TS4 setups, you can't have great serve if you want to be a defensive and fast player, and vice versa.
I was just saying, at least you can reach good speed. Not exceptional, but good.

Thats what I am talking about. If you face a good opponent who hits 95 % of all his shots by perfect timing its very hard to win against him with power settings. Especially when your serve sucks. BUT thats absolutely fair cause your opponent practiced the whole time to hit his shot with perfect timing. He earned his win and not playing that one trick serve tennis with 90 power settings.
I am 100% sure if you face an avarage opponent you will have more difficulties to win the match when he uses power setting instead of speed setting. Again: If am wrong why 95% of all 2k open players pick roddick instead of chang? You know i am right about that cause power and good serve gives you a huge advantage against avarage opponents who plays with speed settings.

I absolutely agree with the first part of the paragraph. If my opponent is really good, I'll be in troubles anyway, no matters what setup he will use.
But when you face an average player, I can guarantee you that power setting are my favourite to face, cause them are the easier to defeat.
I'm using another player in WT, with Neuwirth (I'm using it in order to practice for ITST), and I've NEVER, NEVER, had a problem to defeat power players. Expecially 100 power players: I use shot-counter all the time, win the match, and get insulted (XD).
So when I see my next opponent uses 100 power, I can smile

But against fast and defensive players, I need more time to win every single point, cause I have less powert (88 instead of 100) than usual, and my inside-out FH (one of the shot I do better) is not so effective.
This means more time on the court, when the stamina of my player is not very high (76 or 78).

You also have serve 91/98. Thats the whole key to win games against good opponents who plays with speed settings. Using that unbalanced and unrealistic serve to hit the lines and serve with speed 230 on first and second serve. I called it one trick tennis. Thats the whole gameplan about all these power settings. Hit the lines on the serves for asses or make the point with the next shot.

Well, 91 or 98 serve can help, but again, the difference is made by user's skills.
I've faced people with Babb or Gallo serving not so good, and always in the same place, so I could return even whit deep, fast and strong flat shots.
But I've also faced guys with less than 70 on serve, placing the ball very well.

[Agassi_Return]

But when you face an average player, I can guarantee you that power setting are my favourite to face, cause them are the easier to defeat. So when I see my next opponent uses 100 power, I can smile

It depends on his serve. In WT mode there are many players who use 98/98 setting and figured out how to serve on lines on first and second serve with 220-230kmh. But playing tennis they just suck. They know nothing about control shots, they dont hit shots on perfect timing all he time...etc. To play against these one trick players is always a struggle and they can go easily in tie break and maybe win luckily. Especially when they use corner serve.
But when they switch to speed setting they just suck and had no chance.

I played against several those 98/98 guys and when i asked for rematch with real tennis players except roddick they accepted and losed 3-0 3-0. The point is the power setting (98/98 - 91/100) is much more unbalanced as the speed setting cause with speed setting you need much more skill (on timing, net play, movement, shots varity) and not only a good serve and power shot. Another reason why power settings are MORE unbalanced is the easy serve. You can serve with 230 kmh on your first and second serve with minor risk and even if you return that serve the opponent can still make an easy point with the next final shot.These power settings need to go in TS5!