Top Spin 4 - Player Balancing Updates

[El_6u4p0]

I skip the actual game play recommended changes as especially Hawkeye has brought up most of it already but concentrate on the coaches.

- revamp the bonus points/skill combinations: in case a coach offers two really good skills, as for example the all beloved TSI/MD combo he/she should reward less attribute points, at the same time less attractive combinations should get combined with the maximum of 50 points instead. Also look at some of the skill combos in general investing 15 points into S&V in order to unlock a trainer that gives "Longer, Better!" is odd, same goes for 15 points in DBL to get "Instant Rocket"
- reposition certain coaches; the previously mentioned Pei Jing Quah combo TSI/MD should be available only in case you invest the fast majority of your points in DBL (it should be one of the ultimate defensive combos), being able to get both skills, 15 attribute points on both forehand and backhand each and on top (up to) 12 points in OBL is simply way too good, so change the prerequisite to at least 14 or 15 DBL instead (on top of adjusting the attribute skills as written above).

[supinesmokey13]

^^^ That's not really addressing player balance issues per se.

For the posts a few pages back about S&V becoming ineffective with the changes, I haven't played since the balancing patch, but before the patch I was using a S&V female and after losing my first 2 matches I won about 20 in a row. I think it's not that difficult to hit winners from the net either when you use the normal and power volleys on a ball that is above the level of the net. I feel like volleying is like it should be.

Another comment I saw was that players don't make putaway volleys. Yes most don't because they don't take time to practice the volley. I do and have won plenty of points with a guy with 39 volley and 52 reflexes. You just have to come in at the right time and make the first volley count.

I can't comment about what it is like now (though I will be playing some tonight), but at least before the changes to serving I felt that S&V was reasonably effective.

i have serve volleyed with the patch on and serve volley is still very effective though it is not easy to do sometimes behind a kick serve and because of that no man's land glitch i still end up hitting half volleys though im getting quite good at hitting them at net and love the drop volleys too i feel volleying allows guys to chase down a few more balls also everyone complainin gthe game is vt is silly this game has a lot of depth im mean im starting to master the half volley from the baseline too i hit few bh half volley flick winners a la federer

[JJ_DUBZ_87]

I Think the primary thing 2K needs to address is the player hitting the shot and stopping as the opponent hits their shot back. If I input "right" on the analog stick, my player should be side-stepping to the freaking right!!!!! Not side-stepping once, then stopping, then running like a goof to the ball like i wasn't even pressing or leaning in that direction.

I FEEL THIS IS THE BASE FOR A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES AND NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED URGENTLY!!!!!!!

Al, PLEASE talk to your contacts about this and if they can tell us what they're doing to fix this problem. If my player could MOVE properly, the power players wouldn't be so dominant. Part of the reason is this stupid issue with the unresponsiveness of the characters.

MOVEMENT IS THE FIRST ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. I'll post this every day until this is done because it's absolutely ridiculous and ridiculously frustrating.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Errors in shot timing
I was wondering if an error percentage system could be incorporated into the timing system for all shots. Perfect shots would have an 80% chance of going in. Good shots 65%, and Too late or Too soon shots would be at 35%. The numbers would deteriorate over time as stamina decreases, and would change depending on the kind of shot you're trying to make (on the run). This way, 2 people who get perfect/good timing 90% of the time would still be able to make errors. Only putting errors on Too late or Too soon shots would not really address the unforced errors problems people are talking about. (The numbers above were just picked at random)

This is just an idea, as I don't know how the TS4 system works, but plz also incorporate errors into Perfect and Good shots.

[TomBs]

Now a perfect shot that results in an error isn't a perfect shot, is it?

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Now a perfect shot that results in an error isn't a perfect shot, is it?

What I'm trying to say is that Perfect shouldn't mean "it will go in all the time" like it does now. Instead it should mean "your shot has a higher chance of going in". Even when you have the time to setup, or get perfect timing, there should still be a chance that you'll miss. This will reduce the constant 30 hit rallies that occur so often between some styles. What's the point of having low stamina if your "too late" or "too soon" shots are the only things that are affected? Your entire game should be affected. This could also fix a few key things:

1. Offense would improve: When you have someone on the run and you put them in a bad spot, getting perfect timing all the time doesn't automatically mean that the defender will get the ball back ALWAYS, like he can now in the current system. Since he's been running his stamina will be low, and his chance of missing goes up even with perfect. So he can't just pull a "perfect" to save himself and find a way to win a rally he really should have lost.

2. Defense would improve: Defensive baseliners can actually make people miss now. Def baseliners can still miss themselves, but since their stamina is higher the number would decrease slower.

3. How many errors would be produced in a game betweem 2 people who get perfect timing 75%, good 20%, and too late or too soon 5% of the time? Very little. Sounds similar to the current system.

This is why perfect timing should still have a chance of error. There is no such thing as a "perfect" shot that always go in in real life either. Pros still miss, even when they setup to hit a floaty, easy to punish, ball.

[venom400]

Now a perfect shot that results in an error isn't a perfect shot, is it?

What I'm trying to say is that Perfect shouldn't mean "it will go in all the time" like it does now. Instead it should mean "your shot has a higher chance of going in". Even when you have the time to setup, or get perfect timing, there should still be a chance that you'll miss. This will reduce the constant 30 hit rallies that occur so often between some styles. What's the point of having low stamina if your "too late" or "too soon" shots are the only things that are affected? Your entire game should be affected. This could also fix a few key things:

1. Offense would improve: When you have someone on the run and you put them in a bad spot, getting perfect timing all the time doesn't automatically mean that the defender will get the ball back ALWAYS, like he can now in the current system. Since he's been running his stamina will be low, and his chance of missing goes up even with perfect. So he can't just pull a "perfect" to save himself and find a way to win a rally he really should have lost.

2. Defense would improve: Defensive baseliners can actually make people miss now. Def baseliners can still miss themselves, but since their stamina is higher the number would decrease slower.

3. How many errors would be produced in a game betweem 2 people who get perfect timing 75%, good 20%, and too late or too soon 5% of the time? Very little. Sounds similar to the current system.

This is why perfect timing should still have a chance of error. There is no such thing as a "perfect" shot that always go in in real life either. Pros still miss, even when they setup to hit a floaty, easy to punish, ball.

I'm actually gettign a lot of UE from my oponnents with my defensive girl , just enough to off set the tremendous amounts of winners a OB can get , still fun to play with my SV/DB tough lol .

[TomBs]

I agree with you, but it's a result of bad footwork/positioning because of the low stamina, not really the timing of the shot itself. If you're still positioned well and the timing is perfect, there's not really a reason for the ball to go out or in the net.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Although I didn't like TS3, if there's something I'd borrow from it it would be the error system. There needs to be more errors in TS4. Perfect should not always mean it goes in.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I agree with you, but it's a result of bad footwork/positioning because of the low stamina, not really the timing of the shot itself. If you're still positioned well and the timing is perfect, there's not really a reason for the ball to go out or in the net.

In real life, yes, but in this game it's all about timing. Timing is all that matters. How do people make errors if all they get are good/perfects shots 95% of the time? Even when you had perfect positioning in TS3 you could still miss. Ofcourse this was due to people risking most of the time, but still, you could miss. That's the 1 thing I would applaud TS3 for.

[TomBs]

Because if you're moved around the court your positioning can't be good all the time. Timing shouldn't be all that matters.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Because if you're moved around the court your positioning can't be good all the time. Timing shouldn't be all that matters.

People can, and do, hit winners when on the run and on the full stretch in TS4. Why? Because they got perfect timing. I agree with you, but this isn't real life. It doesn't matter how you're positioned in TS4, if your timing is perfect the ball will come back. That's the problem.

[ieyan]

Slicing
Slicing is too good. Tone down the effectiveness. Players should not be able to rally with slices and win rallies with slicing only. Add more errors in slicing as well. You can be too accurate and go on the offensive with them. They can be used for offense, but they are mostly for defense. Sliced balls should mainly be floaty, and give you time to recover. Your opponent should also be able to punish your slices more easily as well. Maybe add a bit more accuracy to a sliced ball that is hit back, like how inside out add a bit more accuracy and power to you shots, so that people stop trying to rally with slices only.

this is what i want 2k to fix it..and 2k please put the scoreline in the bottom..

[C4iLL]

The biggest problem is that a player with 40 in speed, can go as fast as a guy with 75-80.

Same thing about the "reflex" stat which is pretty useless, as the "stamina" one.

If these stats had a REAL effect on the character, the gameplay would be more balanced (more variety in the construction of the character). For instance, a guy who puts 100 in Power would be useless because he would run too slow.

It would encourage people to put some points in defense, in order to get a good speed, and stamina. And the game would become more interesting !

[ItaStallion]

The biggest problem is that a player with 40 in speed, can go as fast as a guy with 75-80.

Same thing about the "reflex" stat which is pretty useless, as the "stamina" one.

If these stats had a REAL effect on the character, the gameplay would be more balanced (more variety in the construction of the character). For instance, a guy who puts 100 in Power would be useless because he would run too slow.

It would encourage people to put some points in defense, in order to get a good speed, and stamina. And the game would become more interesting !

I have played the game alot. The reason that people are able to get to balls alot on online is the catch up lag.

Where you hit your shot and the guy looks like at the last second he gets to the ball and gets it back to you.

There is actually a very large difference between a 40 speed and 80+ speed which is fine.

Just the mixture of lag lets them get to alot of balls that they would not be able to get to offline.