TS4 Cheese Statement (Fair Play at the ITST)

[Alex-4487]

I don't think Drew Welch needs to be banned. I do, however think people that use him with the intention of drop shotting all day long are quite lame and THEY should be banned. As far as Welch if we had some sort of 90 or 85 max rule we could always say that only one wing can have that max and the other must be in the 70's tops. I think that would make matters a lot more fair in that respect.

this ^^^^
ol atleast restrict one wing as i believe this is the only setup where both wings are in the red and over 80 and the other coaches that do it have already been banned

[RainingAmoeba79]

I don't think Drew Welch needs to be banned. I do, however think people that use him with the intention of drop shotting all day long are quite lame and THEY should be banned. As far as Welch if we had some sort of 90 or 85 max rule we could always say that only one wing can have that max and the other must be in the 70's tops. I think that would make matters a lot more fair in that respect.

I think a good rule is no power over 95, and only one wing can be over 80.

[ILuvBillVal]

Personally I'd say nothing should be over 90, power included.

[ray237]

Look at my reply to this topic (in the first page, for future readings) http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=15390

What do you think about?

[jayb1988]

I have just joined up to ITST after doing relatively well on the world tour (think I'm now within the top 100) and have received the odd complaint on the tour that I use too many drop shots, so was wary of using them in my first match on ITST, admittedly this was against the top player here so I was going to lose anyway, but don't really want to feel hindered in future matches.

I use the drop shot usually against players who have higher power stats than me, where rallies become too long so a drop shot is a way to shorten the point. I am stuck with a silver coach, as the selection of gold coaches I have are pretty poor, so I often face players with alot more power and improved stats, so I feel the drop shot is a way to sometimes even up the odds.

I play with variety, like an Andy Murray style, with a mix of top spin, slice and power shots when required, with a drop shot thrown in on the odd occasion. This shot is part of tennis, so I don't understand it when people complain about others using it, you wouldn't get Nadal telling Murray to stop playing it as often as he does during a match do you? It can be counter productive anyway, as many of them hit the net, its a high risk shot at the end of the day.

I feel the people who complain about the use of drop shots are probably players who have not yet mastered them, so become frustrated. I like using the shot, not to annoy people, but because I find it an effective way of winning a point.

I think the wide serve 'cheese' suggestion is somewhat odd also. I played a 'real' game of tennis in a tournament the other day and the guy was serving wide to me pretty much every point...so this suggests that it is incorporated in actual tennis play. Just watching the game on tv you will see many players shortening the points with wide serves followed by a put away forehand, it is an effective tool, especially if you have a decent serve, why not use it? Again, is that just because people have not mastered the joystick manual serving technique?

I think that people need to chill out about these 'cheese' suggestions, let people play how they want to play. Obviously a guy that drop shots every point is abit much, but then there is an equal right to complain about a serve and volleyer who comes into the net after every serve to shorten the point.

I hate playing serve and volley players, more so than power players, as they are ones who seem most difficult to tactically break down, but they are utilising their strengths, so it makes it more competitive all round to work out how to beat them.

Also, is the return glitch when you play a perfect power return? Because that tends to send players back on their feet, or send the ball flying out, but that is only because I have hit a well timed and anticipated return, so how would that be considered a glitch if someone is good at returning? I don't see that many players who can return like that, but for me it is one of the best feelings to hit a winner off a return so to remove that from matches would be ridiculous.

I know these are not concrete rules we have to follow, but suggestions like these will only limit the matches to contain unrealistically lengthy rallies and contain less variety. Mixing things up with a whole range of shots is essentially how I play and what tennis, real or not, should be about.

[djarvik]

Just to clear up, these are NOT suggestions. Rather guidelines. They need to be observed, strongly.

I think you missing the point. Especially so if you are trying to relate real tennis to this. In real tennis, 20-30-40-50-60 drop shots per match don't exist. So are constant FH slices. And other things. But this thread is not exactly about that.

I suggest you browse around on the forums first. Then make up your mind.

You will find a lot of useful information in regards to the subject. For example: did you know that you can create fully trained players in minutes after you finish one?

I am glad you found the concept of ITST interesting and glad you joined. Cheese tactic and their adherence is part of the concept.

Welcome!

[PerfectAce]

I have just joined up to ITST after doing relatively well on the world tour (think I'm now within the top 100) and have received the odd complaint on the tour that I use too many drop shots, so was wary of using them in my first match on ITST, admittedly this was against the top player here so I was going to lose anyway, but don't really want to feel hindered in future matches.

I use the drop shot usually against players who have higher power stats than me, where rallies become too long so a drop shot is a way to shorten the point. I am stuck with a silver coach, as the selection of gold coaches I have are pretty poor, so I often face players with alot more power and improved stats, so I feel the drop shot is a way to sometimes even up the odds.

I play with variety, like an Andy Murray style, with a mix of top spin, slice and power shots when required, with a drop shot thrown in on the odd occasion. This shot is part of tennis, so I don't understand it when people complain about others using it, you wouldn't get Nadal telling Murray to stop playing it as often as he does during a match do you? It can be counter productive anyway, as many of them hit the net, its a high risk shot at the end of the day.

I feel the people who complain about the use of drop shots are probably players who have not yet mastered them, so become frustrated. I like using the shot, not to annoy people, but because I find it an effective way of winning a point.

I think the wide serve 'cheese' suggestion is somewhat odd also. I played a 'real' game of tennis in a tournament the other day and the guy was serving wide to me pretty much every point...so this suggests that it is incorporated in actual tennis play. Just watching the game on tv you will see many players shortening the points with wide serves followed by a put away forehand, it is an effective tool, especially if you have a decent serve, why not use it? Again, is that just because people have not mastered the joystick manual serving technique?

I think that people need to chill out about these 'cheese' suggestions, let people play how they want to play. Obviously a guy that drop shots every point is abit much, but then there is an equal right to complain about a serve and volleyer who comes into the net after every serve to shorten the point.

I hate playing serve and volley players, more so than power players, as they are ones who seem most difficult to tactically break down, but they are utilising their strengths, so it makes it more competitive all round to work out how to beat them.

Also, is the return glitch when you play a perfect power return? Because that tends to send players back on their feet, or send the ball flying out, but that is only because I have hit a well timed and anticipated return, so how would that be considered a glitch if someone is good at returning? I don't see that many players who can return like that, but for me it is one of the best feelings to hit a winner off a return so to remove that from matches would be ridiculous.

I know these are not concrete rules we have to follow, but suggestions like these will only limit the matches to contain unrealistically lengthy rallies and contain less variety. Mixing things up with a whole range of shots is essentially how I play and what tennis, real or not, should be about.

I have to disagree with you. What we want to do here is to make this tour the most realistic possible. Have you ever watched a real match where a player drop shoted every single point??? I don´t think so.

The truth is that players that do this kind of cheesy tactic just want to win by any cost. And this don´t have anything to do with mastering the drop shot, anyone can do it very well with Welsch coach.

[djarvik]

Anyone thought about constant slow serving as something to discuss as cheesy/frowned upon here?

It happens to me constantly on WT now -- even guys with 100 power will slow serve every time because they know it's harder to hit a good return than it is off a fast serve.

It's also happened to me in some ITST matches, where I'd be hitting good returns regularly and then as the match went on they would just start hitting slice or slow flat/top spin every time, since even when you hit a perfect return on a slow shot it tends to sit up for an easy put-away.

This is also something they should look into for a balancing update, if they do another one -- it should be much harder to hit good returns off 130 mph serves and should be really easy to hit good returns off a 90 mph serve. Timing window should be huge and you should be able to hit it back with tons of power.

I will add this today to the list. "ZPS" - zero powered serve to me is a glitch. Such serves should be easy to return and easy to attack, but they seem to be the opposite. I have noticed a lot of power guys use them, as it gives them enough time to charge up the next shot for easy put-away.

It is possible to return this serve effectively, no doubt. But somehow it is easier to return AND direct a much more powerful serve. That's what makes it "cheese" for me.

It should not be confused with charged slice and kick serve. ZPS serves are usually slower and are around 75mphs. Throwing 1-2 serves like that just to keep your opponent guessing is one thing, but having it as a part of your "go-to" strategy is totally another.

[ILuvBillVal]

Anyone thought about constant slow serving as something to discuss as cheesy/frowned upon here?

It happens to me constantly on WT now -- even guys with 100 power will slow serve every time because they know it's harder to hit a good return than it is off a fast serve.

It's also happened to me in some ITST matches, where I'd be hitting good returns regularly and then as the match went on they would just start hitting slice or slow flat/top spin every time, since even when you hit a perfect return on a slow shot it tends to sit up for an easy put-away.

This is also something they should look into for a balancing update, if they do another one -- it should be much harder to hit good returns off 130 mph serves and should be really easy to hit good returns off a 90 mph serve. Timing window should be huge and you should be able to hit it back with tons of power.

I will add this today to the list. "ZPS" - zero powered serve to me is a glitch. Such serves should be easy to return and easy to attack, but they seem to be the opposite. I have noticed a lot of power guys use them, as it gives them enough time to charge up the next shot for easy put-away.

It is possible to return this serve effectively, no doubt. But somehow it is easier to return AND direct a much more powerful serve. That's what makes it "cheese" for me.

It should not be confused with charged slice and kick serve. ZPS serves are usually slower and are around 75mphs. Throwing 1-2 serves like that just to keep your opponent guessing is one thing, but having it as a part of your "go-to" strategy is totally another.

Haven't used one since our exo, and ACTUALLY have totally noticed how cheesy they are in relation to setting up shots and giving the server more time to get into position!

[tonedawg1]

Anyone thought about constant slow serving as something to discuss as cheesy/frowned upon here?

It happens to me constantly on WT now -- even guys with 100 power will slow serve every time because they know it's harder to hit a good return than it is off a fast serve.

It's also happened to me in some ITST matches, where I'd be hitting good returns regularly and then as the match went on they would just start hitting slice or slow flat/top spin every time, since even when you hit a perfect return on a slow shot it tends to sit up for an easy put-away.

This is also something they should look into for a balancing update, if they do another one -- it should be much harder to hit good returns off 130 mph serves and should be really easy to hit good returns off a 90 mph serve. Timing window should be huge and you should be able to hit it back with tons of power.

just hit control crosscourt or dropshot jk but i find control shots work well against slow servers

[djarvik]

Here is the thing - "works", instead of "punishes". It is almost safer to serve slower. This is dumb!

[fedfan]

When people with 95+ serves and/or stick serve beserker are regulalry hitting 77mph serves out of choice, I think it's safe to say the slow serve is a problem.

[tonedawg1]

Here is the thing - "works", instead of "punishes". It is almost safer to serve slower. This is dumb!

lol just tryin to add some new strategies

[ILuvBillVal]

I served so hard Norberto's XBox blew up.

[ray237]

Anyone thought about constant slow serving as something to discuss as cheesy/frowned upon here?

It happens to me constantly on WT now -- even guys with 100 power will slow serve every time because they know it's harder to hit a good return than it is off a fast serve.

It's also happened to me in some ITST matches, where I'd be hitting good returns regularly and then as the match went on they would just start hitting slice or slow flat/top spin every time, since even when you hit a perfect return on a slow shot it tends to sit up for an easy put-away.

This is also something they should look into for a balancing update, if they do another one -- it should be much harder to hit good returns off 130 mph serves and should be really easy to hit good returns off a 90 mph serve. Timing window should be huge and you should be able to hit it back with tons of power.

I will add this today to the list. "ZPS" - zero powered serve to me is a glitch. Such serves should be easy to return and easy to attack, but they seem to be the opposite. I have noticed a lot of power guys use them, as it gives them enough time to charge up the next shot for easy put-away.

It is possible to return this serve effectively, no doubt. But somehow it is easier to return AND direct a much more powerful serve. That's what makes it "cheese" for me.

It should not be confused with charged slice and kick serve. ZPS serves are usually slower and are around 75mphs. Throwing 1-2 serves like that just to keep your opponent guessing is one thing, but having it as a part of your "go-to" strategy is totally another.

The problem with these serves is that, especially against powerful players, i need to choose the answer direction before the opp serves, and, thanks to calculating the average time needed by the ball to come to me, i usually answer with perfect timed control or powerful shots. The problem is that, if my opps serves a ZPS, he can be devastating, because i'll start aiming the shot and get an ace, because, thanks to the slowness of the serve, the ball is so far when i start aiming that i'll move instead of aiming.
Yes, maybe it can be my fault, but if i'm playing against a 210 km/h FEMALE server, how can i see the kind of the serve and then choose the direction, the timing and the kind of my answer?