Top Spin 4 - Player Balancing Updates

[Seftinho]

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[MrMackNasty]

Thats weird I don't have the same issues at all in career mode or any single player mode for that matter. What difficulty do you play on? I play on very hard. I might try expert someday. I've unlocked it but I don't feel like competing too hard vs the AI. I agree on the errors part though. They don't seem to make much. Only on the complete run and when you hit it at there feet over and over lol. But when your mishiting these balls is your timing spot on? Also what are you FH and BH stats? My career guys is i think 70 70 and I don't mishit much balls at all if my timing is correct.

[Seftinho]

Right I've had it. After beating a Lv. 4 guy 6-2, 6-1, I got destroyed 6-1, 3-0 by a Lv. 3. And it's not my ability - I've never been beaten in straight sets before, bad enough this bad. How is this guy so ridiculously amazing?? To compare. the last post I took the #35 (lv.11) to a 3rd set tie-break and was twice a point away from victory. Yet this level 3 seem incapable of playing anything but these ridiculous shots that constantly gets him in control of every single point.

FH 48
BH 43
Se 34
V 30
P 34
St 48
Sp 39
R 32

I played no different to the first game. But this guy may as well have been Nadal. Slice forehand out wide, he gets it back, smash it to the other corner, on the line, he not only gets it back, but managed to find the corner and win the point. He did this 4 or 5 times. For some reason his defence is amazing and then he pulls off these ridiculous shots to put himself on top before winning the point.

What's the point of giving players attributes if they're not going to play anything like them? In-fact, what's the point of making a ton of generated player anyway? Might as well make me play Nadal for all the difference it makes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to win every game 6-0, 6-0. But when you're drawn against one of the worst players in the game and he ends up being better than Nadal it just totally defies realism and ruins enjoyment. I want a challenge, not to be raped by the #77.

Thats weird I don't have the same issues at all in career mode or any single player mode for that matter. What difficulty do you play on? I play on very hard. I might try expert someday. I've unlocked it but I don't feel like competing too hard vs the AI. I agree on the errors part though. They don't seem to make much. Only on the complete run and when you hit it at there feet over and over lol. But when your mishiting these balls is your timing spot on? Also what are you FH and BH stats? My career guys is i think 70 70 and I don't mishit much balls at all if my timing is correct.

I don't know what it is. I thought maybe my placement (I tilt the stick all the way to the left/right). But I always do that and the ball often goes nowhere near the lines (even when Perfect). Maybe my stamina. But my opponent is often in an even worse condition and he's still able to churn out wondershots.

I play on Hard. I would go down to Medium, but I started a career mode there first thing and won every single match 6-0, 6-0. Hard is much more challenging, but my god it's frustrating. I want realism. Is there nothing inbetween players not even being able to move and basically being zombies (Medium) and players being able to play way above their level for almost every single point and completely defy exhaustion (Hard)?

I'm only Lv. 8. 57 Forehand (+10 from coach), 42 Backhand. So that might have something to do with it. But what annoys me the most is that it always floats into the EXACT SAME SPOT. It never goes miles wide, long, or just catches the line, the "mishits" end up in the exact same spot, every single time. It genuinely looks like there's some sort of ball magnet there.

My timing is usually Good or Just Early (on the ones I miss). Even the "superbs" are often poor though. It is seemingly impossible to finish off rallies because of the ridiculous speed, stamina and shot-making of the supposedly poor opposition and the lack of power in the game. Why are all the shots so weak? I can have the ball sit up in the middle of the court, time my shot perfectly, put in as much power as possible and aim as close to the corners as possible, and the AI will still get on the end of it. And not just a tame shot either, one to either win the point or force me back to the baseline. How do they do it?

It's just so frustrating. It feels like I have no control. I'll be making shots fine and my player will suddenly just whack it towards the ball magnet. Under no pressure, full stamina, not on the run. There will be the whole court to aim for and he'll hit it out. And then you have the opposition player who seems immune to errors, probably on steroids, with the defence of Djokovic/Murray, the offence of Nadal and the variety of Federer (Edit: Oh, and the serve of Roddick or Karlovic).

Cheers for the response though! Maybe it'll get more enjoyable as my player improves a bit more and I get more used to the game. If I stick it out that long before pure frustration causes me to throw my controller through my tv screen or more likely rip my face off.

[Seftinho]

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[VILARCANE]

seftinho...man i feel u...me and my friends feel just the same... having control of some points and none of others...game is broken and balancing and context mean one thing ... read below what i posted, which was ignored by those who do not have the balls to admit it



Hi, I normally don't comment on you guys highly technical discussions , but there is obviously something you did not fully realize with the updates. I used to be a pretty proficient TS3 and TS4 WT player (b4 the update that is, and without MD/TI or other abuses), so give me some credit here... What i believe you are missing out is the word "context" in the updates description. Context does not only mean you will hit the ball right if you are well positioned, right timing, stamina, etc. My theory, backed up with quite a few "test" online games with other TS veterans who completely agree with this, is that the AI actually does not only balance the players, but dynamically balances the flow of the game Let me elaborate on this : on numerous occasions, when i was leading too much in a set, i started hitting too wide, too deep, too sluggish, straight at my opponents feet upon trying to land a cross-court winner, too far from the line upon trying to land down the line winners... Do you see as normal (like i experienced) to botch 25 break points and 8 match points in a single game against an opponent you used to crush regularly at TS3 (like i experienced), even with perfect timing or placement ! How many times have you witnessed 6-0 6-0 matches since the update ? Luck changes side, you see... This is not the only thing, as some of you know, i was one of the best movers in TS3, in TS4 also, i enjoyed sliding on clay to counterattack, but after the updates, the movement has become much more scripted to allow the computer to steal some points from you (or the opposite of course). This is particularly visible, as some of you stated, when the player gets blocked 1/2 sec. on screen before starting running again...also noticed when the game does make you circle around the ball a bit so you cannot reach the ball, let alone wrong-foot you to death paralysing you like a cripple where you should have least turned around to reach for the ball (reflex stat, my ass). Another very funny thing is the serves that are "optically" IN yet overruled as out, try 2 play in zoom cam ull be amazed at what ur puppet player will do against all odds and ur will [/quote]

[RainingAmoeba79]

LOL ya, I was about to bagel Fed on expert wit my S and V, he came to net, I lobbed and came in behind it, Fed hit a tweener winner that landed in the same place my drop shots land, totally angled, from 10 feet behind the baseline. I was like WTF!!! So this is how djoker feels......

Yo gotta ban the tweener!!!

[KluddKalle]

So, is there going to be any more updates or are they going to leave us with a broken game? Tried playing again yesterday after not playing much during the summer, and I can't see myself having any fun with this anymore.

[jayl0ve]

I've come to kinda like the update actually, EXCEPT (big except) the balance between serving and returning is still insanely bad.

[RainingAmoeba79]

Agreed Jayl0ve, serve is useless to invest in unless you are a SV.

[KluddKalle]

I've come to kinda like the update actually, EXCEPT (big except) the balance between serving and returning is still insanely bad.

Agree about the balance. Before the summer I too came around and sort of liked the update. But I still struggled alot playing. Against other humans I guess it's ok, but I enjoy playing the AI just as much and since the last update this is something that's sucking all the fun out of the game...completely.

[Tennisjoy]

Agree, this game was so much fun bedore the updates. Now it's just broken...

[LokiSharpShootr]

The game its not broken its just harder to play(harder to angle, harder to make winners but easyier to volley and return).

People stop complaining ang go play the game, ohh and think when youre palying it usually helps.

Like think why your opponent is beating you, dont come here and complaing about unreal stats or 52 speed guys running like rafa, take a look a ur oppennent build then at yours and play yours strenghs and his weakness.

Thats how u play tennis if u wanna win.

[KluddKalle]

The game its not broken its just harder to play(harder to angle, harder to make winners but easyier to volley and return).

People stop complaining ang go play the game, ohh and think when youre palying it usually helps.

Like think why your opponent is beating you, dont come here and complaing about unreal stats or 52 speed guys running like rafa, take a look a ur oppennent build then at yours and play yours strenghs and his weakness.

Thats how u play tennis if u wanna win.

I have been playing this game (and all the TS-games) exstensively, on the hardest difficulties and in lots of online-matches, and what I'm talking about has nothing to do with the game being more difficult. The gameplay-feel has changed to such a degree that it feels like a different (and not as fun game) to play. I don't know about you but if a game pisses me off as much as TS4 has since the update, it feels kind of spoiled. I'm in this to have fun, not be frustrated and angry (or spend countless hours training on something I was already good at). That's just a waste of time and money.

So to me, the game is broken. Both on- and offline. And this has nothing to do about other players stats.

[NiCo Der Lino0o]

Would be interested if I better myself again soon appear an update?

there who has maybe a few infos about it?

[Seftinho]

I've tried playing this again and I can enjoy it at times, but there are several reasons why it is just so incredibly frustrating:

-Errors are incredibly easy to make unless get a "superb" timing. I really can't get to grips with the timing. Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just useless. I try and hit it when you would normally hit it, using common sense and watching tennis IRL, and yet I'll often get a "too late" and hit a simple top spin shot into the sidelines.
-Stamina - does it mean anything? The AI are often running on no stamina yet can still play another 20 shots in the rally and often win the point with no errors whatsoever. They rarely ever make unforced errors, no matter how good they are.
-Speed of shots - I struggle to hit any shot powerfully, even on a full power bar on Superb is fairly slow in comparison to RL.
-Speed of serves. Best I've got is 121mph with Roddick (who can hit 140mph+ IRL on occasion). How can I serve faster? The AI also normally serve around 100mph. Ridiculously slow.
-Movement - players seem to be able to get to most balls regardless, making for constantly very long rallies.
-Volleying - the players seem incapable of a simple volley, and often just poke it back into court. Even with the volley trait.

All this makes for very repetitive, unrealistic gameplay. Breaking serve is easier than holding, because having serve is actually more a disadvantage than an advantage, if anything. Holding serve is much harder than IRL because of the incredibly poor serving (seriously, can anyone argue to how this part of the game isn't completely broken?). And then most points turn into long rallies which is just a case of how long before I make an error or my opponent wins the point.

Oh, and I finds all my shots, regardless of normal, power or control, always seem to loop up. IRL most shots, particularly passing shots, are very low over the net, yet I'm still to see a shot go within 1ft of the net, perhaps excluding slice shots.

And to compound all these problems, the difference between the difficulties is huge. I only play on Hard, and yet I get battered every match and can roughly win 1-2 games a match. On Medium I win almost every match 6-0, 6-0. Is there nothing in between half-hearted, lazy AI players and the marathon, never tiring, never making errors AI?

I know that the more I play this game the more I'll improve and the better I'll get. The problem is finding the motivation or enjoyment from this game in the first place to be able to play more than 1-2 matches without losing interested and getting frustrated.

Edit: Another thing:

- It takes about 1-2 seconds for my player to respond after hitting a ball, in which normally I've already lost the point. It just takes way too long to cover the empty court.
- The AI seem incapable of ever hitting a shot short. And they can constantly hit shots into corners, find lines and find incredible angles (that I'm sure aren't actually possible). I know it's not meant to be easy but come on, they're not even human.
- Errors are always the same - the ball just seems to float into a particular spot in the sidelines, as if being pulled by a magnet. Always the same position. It's not realistic and it looks so awful.

I just can't enjoy this game, I really can't. I'm fed up of being at such a disadvantage to the AI, I'm fed up of making ridiculous, silly, pathetic errors because I hit the ball SLIGHTLY early (the game doesn't seem to realise that it is in-fact a game and therefore much harder to time it than IRL), I'm fed up of the AI finding ridiculous, unrealistic angles, I'm fed up of losing a point I'm on top of because of my players inability to make a simple volley (he seems to always poke the ball down into the ground, really slowly, and it always bounces high). I'm fed up of how incredibly boring it is either winning 6-0, 6-0 or losing 1-6, 1-6, regardless of the opposition. I'm fed up of a Lv.2 guy being better than Djokovic because I played Djokovic in the 1st round of a Masters and the Lv. 2 guy in the final of a minor tournament. What is THAT all about?

I bought this game because I really, really enjoyed the demo. I loved the gameplay, I loved the feel for the game, I loved the hitting and the movement. But then I buy the game fully, download the update and suddenly it becomes frustrating as hell. Suddenly I'm not having competitive matches like I was in the demo, I'm either winning every point or losing every point depending on the difficulty.

I'm sorry, but since the update this game sucks. And as far as I can see, there's no way to remove the update. Can anyone help on this?