Top Spin 4 - Player Balancing Updates

[Vieira151]

I feel the same Vieira. I faced some S&V players online. Maybe they where crap, i dont know. It usually takes me about two control shots to put them on the wrong foot.

That's true. A couple of short top spin control shots and you are in control.

Good to know. I´ll try it when I face my first SV opponent. Thanks

Make sure not to hit it at them though.

Either side of them and short topspin and you can get in control. If they understand what you are doing, that's when you throw in some lobs and differing height shots(but generally hit it low unless you are dragged out wide).

[PerfectAce]

I feel the same Vieira. I faced some S&V players online. Maybe they where crap, i dont know. It usually takes me about two control shots to put them on the wrong foot.

That's true. A couple of short top spin control shots and you are in control.

Good to know. I´ll try it when I face my first SV opponent. Thanks

Make sure not to hit it at them though.

Either side of them and short topspin and you can get in control. If they understand what you are doing, that's when you throw in some lobs and differing height shots(but generally hit it low unless you are dragged out wide).

Living and learning... hehe

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I've been playing S&V since well before the patch, but I'm going to agree with some other people that have said it seems like it's TOO effective now. I was good enough with it before that I usually won my service games handily, but now it's rare for me to even drop a point on serve unless I really screw up.

I've also played several S&Vers in WT (which almost NEVER happened before; I'd only played a handful until the last couple of days) and it's nearly impossible to pass. I'm sure it's harder to pass when you're also playing with an S&V player without a lot of power, but it still seemed inordinately difficult compared to pre-patch.

I guess the simplest way to show the dramatic upswing in effectiveness is just to look at the number of people who use it now. Pre-patch it was still effective if you knew how to play it properly -- now it really seems too easy.

Thing is they made trying to pass someone at the net harder, which is good, but then they slowed down the ball, and didn't add enough errors.

S&Vers get too late/soon on volleys. Problem is that their too late/soon shots still go in, and since it's harder to pass they get another chance to hit a "good/perfect" volley to put themselves in a good position to win the point.

If 2k makes too late/soon shots rarely go in, and speeds up the ball a bit. S&Vers would poduce more errors at net.

I like how S&V is now, it wasn't effective enough before. Although I do feel guilty when I s&v and I win points after getting several too late/soon volleys. The baseliner hits so many powerful shots, and I mistime most of them. I really should have lost the point, but all my mistimed volleys still go in, and once i get "good/perfect", the point is practically mine. So it's understandable why people are saying s&v is strong.

More errors and an increase in ball speed would fix this. Volleys are very effective, and should remain so. The current speed of the ball right now makes it a bit easier to volley at net. If it traveled faster then s&vers would have a higher chance of mistiming their volleys, and if there were more errors then they would lose more points. At the same it can be hard to get good timing on well placed volleys, so if baseliners mistime their shots as well, it would go out. This could balance things out.

[SBR Ironik]

I find all this weird. I never had trouble with S&V players before the patch. I'm yet to play one after, but I don't get the feeling it will be that much more different, with the exception of it being a little harder to pass them.

Try to face a good S&V player and come back here to tell us what you think.

I've got crushed By two very good s&v player. I've never been beated By one before the update.

Dunno, maybe it's just me.

[Immortal Strife]

I player last night and lost three time two s&v and a 0-5-15 ir/md (schneider). Besides the speed being too slow to cater to easy vollies, the return game is much easier for s&v players they can just hit a deep looping topspin and then rush the net off the return. It frustrating as hell now to play s&v, every point becomes a dink fest, not fun at all and it dosnt represent any tennis that ive ever seen. Changing topic schneiders ir/md player was a beast i coundnt do squat each point was a crosscourt battle and as soon as i changed it up with a down the line shot or a drop shot I lost the point. That set up is nice post patch on the wt im glad its banned for itst. I also tried using my old ti/md player and he is still good post patch even with reduced stats, but i still have yet to lose to one with my main (semi-volleyking/shot counter). By the way shot counter kinda sucks post patch it takes 2 or three countershots to turn a rally.

[SlicerITST]

Honestly, i would like to face a good serve & volley player to test it. Anyone that is good with that setup please add me and we can have a match soon.

[PerfectAce]

Honestly, i would like to face a good serve & volley player to test it. Anyone that is good with that setup please add me and we can have a match soon.

Me too, please?

[supinesmokey13]

I player lastnigh and lost three time two s&v and a 0-5-15 ir/md (schneider). Besides the speed being too slow to cater to easy vollies, the return game is much easier for s&v players they can just hit a deep lopping topspin and then rush the net off the return. It frustrating as hell now to play s&v, every point becomes a dink fest, not fun at all and it dosnt represent any tennis that ive ever seen. Changing topic schneiders ir/md player was a beast i coundnt do squat each point was a crosscourt battle and as soon as i changed it up with a down the line shot or a drop shot I lost the point. That set up is nice post patch on the wt im glad its banned for itst. I also tried using my old ti/md player and he is still good post patch even with reduced stats, but i still have yet to lose to one with my main (semi-volleyking/shot counter). By the way shot counter kinda sucks post patch it takes 2 or three countershots to turn a rally.

it is called the chip and charge it done usually with slice and or on the second serve in real life flat shots boris becker was know for his drive return and then charging net. So it is done although not with topspin because the ball will sit up allowing the opponent a look at a pass. The return is easier because they have high reflexes e return has been made harder by insisting on having a high reflex stat in orderbfor youbto hava great return of serve so now.having a high reflex stat is now useful.

[Vieira151]

I find all this weird. I never had trouble with S&V players before the patch. I'm yet to play one after, but I don't get the feeling it will be that much more different, with the exception of it being a little harder to pass them.

Try to face a good S&V player and come back here to tell us what you think.

I've got crushed By two very good s&v player. I've never been beated By one before the update.

Dunno, maybe it's just me.

I dunno. I always had Villa as a good S&V and I beat him in an exhibition(at least I think it was Villa). I might go on the now and play a few games.

[edlglide]

I'll play anyone who wants to go up against S&V -- I consider myself a pretty good S&V player. Ranked 10th in women's here and I've played S&V exclusively on the women's circuit since the game was released.

I also don't think it lacked effectiveness before the update....it was pretty easy to win your service games if you were good at it. It's just easier to be good at it now because there's a much greater margin for error.

[PerfectAce]

I'll play anyone who wants to go up against S&V -- I consider myself a pretty good S&V player. Ranked 10th in women's here and I've played S&V exclusively on the women's circuit since the game was released.

I also don't think it lacked effectiveness before the update....it was pretty easy to win your service games if you were good at it. It's just easier to be good at it now because there's a much greater margin for error.

I´ll add you later, ok? I want to see how it works...

[Rocketsfall]

I'm surprised people complain about s&v being too strong. I'm a s&v player myself and it's not like I'm winning matches with ease. Once the other player starts reading my serve I can be in big trouble really fast. My experience is that I can get the upper hand at the start of the match, probably because most players are not used to play against a s&v style. But as the match progresses my opponents adapt to my style and that's when it gets dangerous for me. I need to mix up serves as much as I can or I'm toast. And that's even with a 100 serve.

[supinesmokey13]

I'm surprised people complain about s&v being too strong. I'm a s&v player myself and it's not like I'm winning matches with ease. Once the other player starts reading my serve I can be in big trouble really fast. My experience is that I can get the upper hand at the start of the match, probably because most players are not used to play against a s&v style. But as the match progresses my opponents adapt to my style and that's when it gets dangerous for me. I need to mix up serves as much as I can or I'm toast. And that's even with a 100 serve.

you right i see ican play tommorrow on the weekend but if.not i.will give you the walkover iylt doesnt how high your serve stat is when the opponent starts rewding ur ur you will have problems. And take returns on ala agassi you can beat them you have to find ways to.get your return away from them if the expect to hit a volley in the middle of the service box and you gete return out wide the have to make adjustments and the players ability to make quick ajustments that seperates the mass follow the dominant setup players and the really good volleyers.

[djarvik]

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I'm surprised people complain about s&v being too strong. I'm a s&v player myself and it's not like I'm winning matches with ease. Once the other player starts reading my serve I can be in big trouble really fast. My experience is that I can get the upper hand at the start of the match, probably because most players are not used to play against a s&v style. But as the match progresses my opponents adapt to my style and that's when it gets dangerous for me. I need to mix up serves as much as I can or I'm toast. And that's even with a 100 serve.

Exactly. I've beaten/lost to good s&v players. I think because s&v was too easy to beat before, people expected it to be the same way after the patch. Heck, I lost to someone with my s&v player. He ended a streak I had going. Lol, I thought I was unstoppable until I met him. You have to mix up your return more than ever now. Most people I play seem to hit normal returns all the time. You need to hit precise(simply tapping) and normal returns(charging). Don't always charge up when you want to return. Yes you might get aced a few times or get bad timings when going for precise returns, but this is key in returning well, and it's a must against s&vers. Also, your reflex has to be high. Don't expect to go into a match against a good s&v and give them much trouble with 50rf. Even with my 80fh 69bh 66rf and 64fh 54bh 82rf diesel returner characters s&vers are still no pushovers. I still have to play and return well.

S&V, imo, is not as strong as people say it is. If anything, I would say those 90*3 characters, PJQ, and Jon Samala are still among the strongest.

The 90*3 characters can still hit very powerful shots.
Now that the ball travels slower, your shots get to their destination slower, so that 40 speed they have feels even faster. Their shots still travel fast, so your high speed is still not enough. IIRC, isn't crushing passhing shot/instant rocket the most popular build now?

PJQ/Jon Samala still have MD, which is a skill that should not exist. PJQ characters get effective short cross court angles more consistently than any other build I've encountered. I'm surprised Jon Samala's points weren't reduced. A defensive baseliner with that much power, speed, and strokes? Way too much, especially when you add that he also gives IR/MD.