We have to ban Welch

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Postby Alex-4487 » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:19

xesco15 wrote:i m going to keep on defending welch, because if not at the end we re going to lose all the coaches. i agree with alex. he has reason. we could put welch with 91 81 or 86 fh and bh.
ali, you re a fantastic player and you win me easily and i use welch. alex won me 6-0 6-1 and i was using welch. i m bad but im in number 63 of the ranking.
only four people, likos godzin g keldorn and murmeltier use fantastic welch as their results show.


welch can be uesd np as i aint just saying this coz i lose vs welch i beat you as you said but your mproving and are probably betetr now but the point is as i mentioned and im happy to see people agree is that there should be a limit on the wings as no other coach gives you red wings on both sides if that is implemented it would imo make it more balanced.

drjavik or rob any chance of that happening?
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Postby DarkTunde » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:24

Lol, This thread is Not really surprising... no different from the other similar ones.

The Welch users defend Welch. In the past, the Rabari's defended their man, and even the 98/98 have posts where any mention of a ban has been railed against as they leapt to the defence of their man.

Every one will inevitably defend the coach they use. They are hanging onto them with Eagle like talons! Ha ha ha.

Personally, while the variety on the Tours is pretty much zero, I'd prefer to see some sort of rule/adjustments to attributes rather than outright bans of a coach(es), which may be a sledge hammer approach.

That said, considering I tossed this game in the trash over a month ago, (and yet to regret it so far), maybe my opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt, Lol! :lol:
Last edited by DarkTunde on Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Alex-4487 » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:25

lol people are suggesting to limit welch abit as noone else gives you two wings that are so high hopefully something can be done
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Postby Tamthewasp » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:31

Well svenesva gives you both red wings also on a 0/2/18 it's 81 81
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Postby Alex-4487 » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:38

Tamthewasp wrote:Well svenesva gives you both red wings also on a 0/2/18 it's 81 81


you lack speed tho dont you which you need and 81 imo is high for both wings 2 but it aint as bad as welch as mentioend before he has mroe strengths than weaknesses than any1 else with the control shots he can produce its like nadal having 2 forehand sides lol
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Postby Tamthewasp » Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:44

No speed is the highest if you go 0/0/20 you have 100 speed. I agree with what you are saying. Just thought i'd drop a truth bomb is all.

There is power player with 82 wings 80 plus power but like 38 speed
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Postby xesco15 » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:00

when svenesva you ve alot of speed and that should be banned.
the host have to think about all this options and they have to decide it.
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Postby o Sinna o » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:02

I don't see this as real Problem to be honest.

Even with the ITST Character rules Top Spin 4 still offers the best Setup-Possibilites the Videogame Tennis Scene has even seen. And I mean different Setups which giving you the Chance to compete here.

What I understand now was the Serve Stick and Focus Stick 98 Power and Service Discussion from the Beginning. Even if it was fun to play such a Guy, I can understand that they fixed such a Servicestrength.

But it is like it alway is, you can't make everybody 100% happy, because a Character Balance with so many Options just can't be 100 % balanced.

We will face such a Situation with every upcoming Top Spin Part because a perfect Balance isn't possible if you have such a Character-Setup-Variabilty.

And one we may not forget. Everybody has the Chance to take the Charactersetup which gives him the best Chance to compete combined with the ITST Rules, no matter which Tour he plays.

I created four Characters in the last Days which fit to the ITST Rules.
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Postby o Sinna o » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:14

You know in Top Spin 1 Days we didn't had those big Discussion about the Balance.

After a few months everybody who had a Brain saw which Charactersetup the Setup to compete was and took it.

If I would have to make everybody here happy I would maybe think about one concrete Setup per Playstyle. I mean one concrete S&V, Offensive Baseline and defensive Setup and maybe one for Allround.

Then we would have to chose from only four Possibilities. ^^

But I don't know if that would be the ultimate Solution.
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Postby DennieFR1908 » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:25

xesco15 wrote:i agree with murmeltier. it isn t easy to use welch. if you hit the ball well the shot is very slow. you ve to move the opponent andplay perfect to win a match.


Lol Welch not easy to use?? Welch is The most easy to use setup of topspin.. It's even hard not hitting perfects with that forehand and backhand, you can play away all the balls short cross. I can play very well with this guy, but I don't use him because I know how annoying it is to play someone who is really good with Welch.. But you know they never listen to threats on the forum, so this is just another chanceless cry for help.
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Postby o Sinna o » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:33

DennieFR1908 wrote:
xesco15 wrote:i agree with murmeltier. it isn t easy to use welch. if you hit the ball well the shot is very slow. you ve to move the opponent andplay perfect to win a match.


Lol Welch not easy to use?? Welch is The most easy to use setup of topspin.. It's even hard not hitting perfects with that forehand and backhand, you can play away all the balls short cross. I can play very well with this guy, but I don't use him because I know how annoying it is to play someone who is really good with Welch.. But you know they never listen to threats on the forum, so this is just another chanceless cry for help.


Yeah but just complaining is easy. How would your Solution look like?

You know if we take out Welch the ITST Community will find another Setup to whine about.

So maybe we souldn't have a Setup Choice at all and Set one Setup for everybody?

Is that what you want? ^^

I would have no Problem with it but I am just asking. :wink:
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Postby ILuvBillVal » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:39

Personally I don't think he needs to be banned. I haven't used a single gold coach so far this season, however as far as the community goes I do think it would stop a lot of complaints. I'm not so sure Rabari, Neuwirth or Gallo wouldn't become "the next" complained about coach though.
Norberto H or bust.
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Postby Dark-Disaster » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:52

The reason Welch is so overpowered is really a flaw in the Topspin 4 gameplay. The incredibly consistant angles in this game makes pretty much any coach with high defense levels (specifically, high fh and bh) "overpowered". Everybody who plays real tennis knows that an extreme angled cross court shot is a high risk shot compared to a high, deep, topspin shot. However, the mechanics of topspin 4 pretty much gives both of the shots I mentioned above the same chance of landing in, which is precisly why defensive baseliners benefit the most from this game compared to the more offensive mentalities of the other 2 playstyles.

The above paragraph is pretty much why banning Welch is useless. What does Welch have that others don't, drop shot artist? There are plenty of coaches that have the same high fh/bh that can create the extreme angles that you guys detest. The key to balance isn't banning Welsh, another coach will just appear, the balance ITST seeks lies in the complete change and overhaul of the game's mechanics. (obviously that isn't in our power, we can only pray.)

(By the way, the key to changing Topspin 4's gameplay to be more realistic lies in the words I highlighted)
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Postby edlglide » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:07

Dark-Disaster wrote:The reason Welch is so overpowered is really a flaw in the Topspin 4 gameplay. The incredibly consistant angles in this game makes pretty much any coach with high defense levels (specifically, high fh and bh) "overpowered". Everybody who plays real tennis knows that an extreme angled cross court shot is a high risk shot compared to a high, deep, topspin shot. However, the mechanics of topspin 4 pretty much gives both of the shots I mentioned above the same chance of landing in, which is precisly why defensive baseliners benefit the most from this game compared to the more offensive mentalities of the other 2 playstyles.

The above paragraph is pretty much why banning Welch is useless. What does Welch have that others don't, drop shot artist? There are plenty of coaches that have the same high fh/bh that can create the extreme angles that you guys detest. The key to balance isn't banning Welsh, another coach will just appear, the balance ITST seeks lies in the complete change and overhaul of the game's mechanics. (obviously that isn't in our power, we can only pray.)

(By the way, the key to changing Topspin 4's gameplay to be more realistic lies in the words I highlighted)


No -- the extreme angles aren't the problem with Welch....at least not to me. I can create the same extreme angles with my player (not as consistently, but I can still do it).

The problem is that Welch's wings are so high, combined with his excellent speed/stamina, that not only is it basically impossible to hit a winner against him unless his player manages to wrongfoot himself all the way across on the other side of the court, but he will consistently rip insane winners from absurd positions because of those high wings. To be honest, the Slavina coach might be even worse with 90+ speed, 81 on both wings, and reach swings expert -- but no one really uses her so it's hard to say.

But there are no other coaches that let you have 86 on both wings, or 91 on one side and 81 on the other side, to go along with enough speed to easily run down cross court shots without really having to worry about them. No other coaches (outside Slavina) even come close to that. So contrary to what you said, there are no other coaches that can give the same kind of FH/BH that Welch can. You can get a high 80s or even low 90s FH or BH with other coaches, but not both.

I was never complaining about the extreme angles (while they are silly, there's absolutely nothing we can do about that; plenty of coaches can hit them). I was complaining about the fact that even when you hit one of those extreme angled shots, and Welch is on the tramline opposite court, he can still run over and rip his own extreme angled shot right back (among other things, but I'm just using that as an example). Like I said originally, he's the only coach I've played against where I feel like there's literally nothing I can do against him. To be honest, I think he's much MUCH harder to play against than Pei Jing whatever ever was.

You are right that Top Spin 4 is just fundamentally broken though.
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Postby ILuvBillVal » Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:41

You're right about Snezlana or whatever her name is. Her wings and power are slightly less in most setups, but her skills are better than Welch's unless you're looking to spam drop shots.
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