topspin invasion

[tigerofintegrity]

I think the problem is, at the very top level, TI/MD doesn't really provide a huge advantage. That's why a lot of top players, even if they don't use TI/MD too, can handle these players. But perhaps at lower levels it does make a big difference and it is harder to beat them if you can't time a perfect slice to the baseline off every shot.

The same goes with mistiming shots. At the top level, hitting a too late or too soon shot is often a death sentence. It may not go out as an unforced error but believe me, they are punished. I think possibly at lower levels poorly timed shots aren't really punished with the same intensity so it doesn't feel like it's a big disadvantage to them. So at the top level, unforced errors off poorly timed shots would not be beneficial and would be worse I think. Attacking tennis is a much bigger advantage than defensive tennis and more unforced errors off poor timing would make it even harder to defend reducing the top level game to nearly just all attack. The majority of mistimed shots are when defending, almost never from attacking positions.

I think these things that people are complaining about, they make a far bigger difference at lower levels than at the higher levels and that's why we don't really see any of the top players experiencing these problems or feeling that a lot needs to be changed about the game. And possibly also why there's such a split in opinion because top players don't experience how it affects the lower ranked players whilst lower ranked players don't experience how it doesn't affect the top players.

[polakis]

What are you saying? I dont know the game well? I am no22 in the world on world tour. My name in the game is Pol Bitzelis and i am greek. I have slice invasion and reach swing expert skills. I ONLY LOOSE FROM TS/MD CHEATERS. Not always but if a player is good these skills gives him full advantage. You cant play every time 2 perfect sets to win them. So, i am loosing one or two cups every week because of them. This spoils the fun...

I am a good player i believe...Not a useless guy.I know how to play the game. I bet that the top players in the world right now cant play without these cheasy skills...

I dont want to play like them. I am fair and romantic...I am close to the top of the world and i can beat them. Hardly but i can...

Its annoying thought...

[Crotatsuya]

Looking forward to "cheating" you out of an ITST tournament then, should the time come. I kinda feel insulted by your statements. I also get the feeling you are not even reading thoroughly what has been posted.
Being angry about something is one thing, insulting people is kinda lame though.

[tigerofintegrity]

What are you saying? I dont know the game well? I am no22 in the world on world tour. My name in the game is Pol Bitzelis and i am greek. I have slice invasion and reach swing expert skills. I ONLY LOOSE FROM TS/MD CHEATERS. Not always but if a player is good these skills gives him full advantage. You cant play every time 2 perfect sets to win them. So, i am loosing one or two cups every week because of them. This spoils the fun...

I am a good player i believe...Not a useless guy.I know how to play the game. I bet that the top players in the world right now cant play without these cheasy skills...

I dont want to play like them. I am fair and romantic...I am close to the top of the world and i can beat them. Hardly but i can...

Its annoying thought...

I disagree. I think if you're really as good as you think you are then you wouldn't be losing to TI/MD most of the time. You would be winning most of the time... I don't use TI/MD and I beat them most of the time as do others.

Also, I would refrain from labeling an entire demographic as cheaters. That implies that they are doing something in the game which is not allowed. Just because you dislike them doesn't mean they are infringements.

[polakis]

Looking forward to "cheating" you out of an ITST tournament then, should the time come. I kinda feel insulted by your statements. I also get the feeling you are not even reading thoroughly what has been posted.
Being angry about something is one thing, insulting people is kinda lame though.

10 pages for this subject tells it all. TI/MD gives players advantage that hardly can be beaten. Period...

The rest is bs...

[AMAZING ZIZOU]

Looking forward to "cheating" you out of an ITST tournament then, should the time come. I kinda feel insulted by your statements. I also get the feeling you are not even reading thoroughly what has been posted.
Being angry about something is one thing, insulting people is kinda lame though.

10 pages for this subject tells it all. TI/MD gives players advantage that hardly can be beaten. Period...

The rest is bs...

I 'm no big fan of the way you're putting it into words but I do agree. There is no doubt about the superiority of that coach.
It is soo good that I even use it my self now ; even though i'm ashame of it. I can even play a few volleys with my guy, can you imagine ?? no weakness i tell you. Even in serve returns, it rocks !

But there has always been a better set up in all the top spin series I know. In the previous opus, everyone in the REG tournament was using the same character which feels the same as today. The set up had no point in volley , speed and return, which is more or less the same thing now with Pei Jin Quah.

I see here and there poeple who would like to change his bonuses or amend either Md or TI. Cut the crap. It's impossible. Either ITST decides to forbid this coach either we continue the way it is and pray & wait until a sim tour is established.
Cheers to all

[Till69]

I think if you're really as good as you think you are then you wouldn't be losing to TI/MD most of the time. You would be winning most of the time... I don't use TI/MD and I beat them most of the time as do others.

Also, I would refrain from labeling an entire demographic as cheaters. That implies that they are doing something in the game which is not allowed. Just because you dislike them doesn't mean they are infringements.

100% agreed.
There are enough setups that can beat TI/MD pretty easy, if you dont be afraid when you see a TI/MD player.

Especially as most TI/MD players dont play really smart, most of them plays TopSpins only, which gives you lot of time.

Try TI/MD and be surprised how often you will be beaten

[tigerofintegrity]

100% agreed.
There are enough setups that can beat TI/MD pretty easy, if you dont be afraid when you see a TI/MD player.

Especially as most TI/MD players dont play really smart, most of them plays TopSpins only, which gives you lot of time.

Try TI/MD and be surprised how often you will be beaten

And 100% counteragree!

About the 'hitting one button and winning with just the one shot' thing. TI/MD that solely use the top spin shot are fairly easy. Especially after a couple of games when you realise that's all they're going to do. They become really easy to anticipate, constantly feed you the same pace, give you too much time with every shot and it's not very hard to counter them at all when they play like that. It's much harder to get beaten by one that uses top spin all the time than one who mixes things up and knows which shot to hit at the right time...

[AMAZING ZIZOU]

Indeed, a bad player will remain a bad player whatever character he plays with.
One exemple to try to convice you guys. I played two matches in a row against a friend. I loose the first one pretty close in 3 set with my usual character when I win in straights sets 2 and 1 with our cracked MD/TI.

[djarvik]

I still fail to understand why no one is actually posting any of these: "There are enough setups that can beat TI/MD pretty easy"



Seriously, this will help the argument against TSI/MD banning.

I am not picking a side, but bottom line is that a HUGE percentage of people use one setup now. Hell, even TS3 40-90 was more diverse.

...if not for any other reason but this, the setup in my opinion should be changed to make it tad less appealing and introduce more variety.

[venom400]

I understand that the good players are going to pick the most powerfull set up to win , specially the ones that don't want to lose and don't want to risk having to play another good player with a really good set up .

And I understand that in real tennis people with more skill are going to beat me up and show me where the lines are often .

But the way the game is set up right now is silly , it is not about player skill ,until everyone has the same coach then maybe.

The game has many different coaches , set ups , if you are only going to have one set up that wins then why bother making any others?

If you create a game you have to make sure it is balanced so every spec has a chance to win , and it is up to the player to use their weakness and strengths to win against any other player .

For example there are many people that have the same style of playing as Nadal , but not everyone is Nadal , so let's Say Igor Andrev that plays like Rafa , comes against Roger that has an agressive baseline and volley style , Roger is going to easely beat Andrev (unless he goes into UE mode) , Rodick has a big serve and nothing else , yet he can beat player that may play like Roger , or even Nadal like players because he uses his skills the best , see ? RL tennis is not dominated by one style , there are many winning strats and play styles in tennis and it is up to the player to make the best of it to win or lose .

Right now in TS4 everyone is Nadal , and unless you play like Nadal you will lose .

Any time I play against any player using any other coach except the Chinese one I have a fair match win or lose , the points feel close and I often times I get outsmarted by my opponent and lose or I outsmart them and I win , when I play against the Chinese coach players I feel like I'm playing a monster even if I can tell the player controlling the character is horrible (bad shot selection , lagging , bad reaction , easily readable etc...) because the attributes for their player are too good.

I think the day that happens in RL THe ATP and WTA will change the rules the ensure any style has a chance , and 2K should do the same to ensure that any play style played well can win .

Anyone defending the Chinese coach I have a special dare for you , make a player without using Quah , and come back with screen shots of wins in all Grand slams and masters , for 4 seasons , do this and I will be shut , you can use any coach you want except the Chinese coach , Deal ?

[ItaStallion]

ok im confused if everyone is saying its overpowered ban the coach and be done with it.

[SlicerITST]

That will most likely just shift the problem to the next coach in line.

[ItaStallion]

then were in a pickle you can't get out of.

Unless of course 2K balance the game out very well with there updates this game is going to be dominated by TI/MD

also guys dont blame the player blame the maker.

[Till69]

I still fail to understand why no one is actually posting any of these: "There are enough setups that can beat TI/MD pretty easy"

For example:
- With 0-12-8 and Tomas Madr you can blow away most TI/MD players (hard flats to center)

- Defensive: With drop shots you get them pretty easy out of their "comfort zone"