Regular Tour Rule Suggestion #3

[Rob ITST]

Just messin wit ya, of course your opinion counts (almost) as much as everyone elses.

[Tamthewasp]

Just messin wit ya, of course your opinion counts (almost) as much as everyone elses.

Be lucky I am not in USA or else I would sue all y'all.

[Rob ITST]

Sue Djarvik - I think he has a lot more money than me.

[Ary1g]

Wow. This reminds me why I gave up discussing with you, Djarvik. You are denying everything we say, like it's no truth in it. The results Ali have written shows just how it is. Before the latest balancing update Rabari was probably the strongest coach, though after it, Welsh have just become impossible to play against due to the control shots improvements and his great wings and speed.

In the matches Ali mentioned, maybe Ali lost some momentum in the next matches, however nobody using Rabari are losing so much momentum that they almost can't win a single game after winning the match in a three setter before. Rabari is a tier 1 player in your words. Which leads me to the only solution that you have to be the one testing it, just to see for yourself how much better this setup really is. It's obviously not good enough for us to post results from test matches we have. Ali just showed that.

Try playing Firderis or Poumodoro.


At last, I find it weird that ITST's great goal is to summon the greatest players in TS4 with no restrictions, when TS3 had quite solid restrictions..
As said before, the only reason I joined this site at first was to be free of playing extreme setups. I didn't think it was just World Tour with longer matches. Though, I realized that a few months ago. That's why I rather choose WT. There is also much more variety in player builds on WT than here on ITST.

[VMoe86]

Just mentioning two points, which are worth noting:

1. Already back in August, before the latest balancing update, half of the top 10 on the PS3 tour were using Welch (including the world number 1 Likos). And djarvik predicted "The Rise of the Welch" in July (!) before anyone complained about this coach.

2. Having mastered playing with Welch, i.e. mastering control shots, does NOT imply that the player has also mastered playing as an offensive baseliner like Neuwirth or Rabari, which means that you have to master how to trigger the semi-volley king consistently or mastering power shots in addition to control shots. Therefore you cannot expect a result like "I use Neuwirth, he Welch, I lose. Both use Neuwirth, I win." to be representative -- it could be that the opponent just mastered using Welch, which is utterly boring, but really effective.

[djarvik]

Wow. This reminds me why I gave up discussing with you, Djarvik. You are denying everything we say, like it's no truth in it. The results Ali have written shows just how it is. Before the latest balancing update Rabari was probably the strongest coach, though after it, Welsh have just become impossible to play against due to the control shots improvements and his great wings and speed.

In the matches Ali mentioned, maybe Ali lost some momentum in the next matches, however nobody using Rabari are losing so much momentum that they almost can't win a single game after winning the match in a three setter before. Rabari is a tier 1 player in your words. Which leads me to the only solution that you have to be the one testing it, just to see for yourself how much better this setup really is. It's obviously not good enough for us to post results from test matches we have. Ali just showed that.

Try playing Firderis or Poumodoro.


At last, I find it weird that ITST's great goal is to summon the greatest players in TS4 with no restrictions, when TS3 had quite solid restrictions..
As said before, the only reason I joined this site at first was to be free of playing extreme setups. I didn't think it was just World Tour with longer matches. Though, I realized that a few months ago. That's why I rather choose WT. There is also much more variety in player builds on WT than here on ITST.

No, you are wrong. I am not denying anything. I am asking for proof and testing and I am questioning the "facts" presented. This is what I am supposed to do buddy If I would listen to your first rule suggestion - I would have to re-write the rules what? 9 times now? That is how many times you have re-written them. And every time "You were right!".

Same goes for every other suggestion.

As for discussing, I am not here to agree with you, quite the opposite. I will always try to find holes in your or anyone's theory. Because if I don't, I will find them the hard way, through tons of complaints that would follow and lots of work. Work that you are not going to be doing.

At last, I find it weird that ITST's great goal is to summon the greatest players in TS4 with no restrictions, when TS3 had quite solid restrictions.
As said before, the only reason I joined this site at first was to be free of playing extreme setups. I didn't think it was just World Tour with longer matches. Though, I realized that a few months ago. That's why I rather choose WT. There is also much more variety in player builds on WT than here on ITST.

This is actually proving my point even further:

Do you know what setup was the most popular on TS3? The setup that 90% of the tour used? YES 90%!

4 x 90. 90 on strokes, power and serve. Everyone used this setup with exception of handful of guys that were exceptional at the game. They used a "slightly different" setup. They said to themselves "I want a challenge, I want to win with a lesser player" and they did. They knew very well the risks of not using the 4x90. Same goes for our situation now....except we have 4 setups nearly on the same level. We have it WAY better now.

BTW - Welch fits perfectly into 40-90 rules of TS3. He is THAT one setup that was used in TS3 by 90% of people.


@VMoe86 - thank you. I spotted that Welch "problem" before everyone else did. Back when others were happy collecting titles with him and feeling all mighty. I don't buy all this "Updates" have done this or that. All the updates were very subtle. If you look back at the forum topics, people were having hard time seeing what changed most times and we had very different opinions, some said SV is dead, while other said SV will rule the tour now. Some said Control shots were gone, while others said they will be over powered and same for power guys. Opinions changed as fast as guys were losing to certain players. Today I lose against Rabari - he must be overpowered, tomorrow Welch or Babb.

PS3 tour was Welch LONG time ago. 10 month ago most already used Welch. Then some decided to use "lesser" coaches and found out their skills actually not what they thought they were, started losing - and now blaming the very player they chose to play with in the first place.

Anyway, pick a top 4 setup - master it. If you are looking for a fast, control hitting baseliner - Welch should be your guy. If you want a similar setup but just as strong - guess what? You don't have one. Use a tier 2 setup or Welch. If you want a Serve blasting 1-2 punch kinda guy - pick Babb. And so on.

[Ary1g]

No, you are wrong. I am not denying anything. I am asking for proof and testing and I am questioning the "facts" presented. This is what I am supposed to do buddy If I would listen to your first rule suggestion - I would have to re-write the rules what? 9 times now? That is how many times you have re-written them. And every time "You were right!".

I never said I was right about anything. I only presented people with my ideas and tried to make people think about it. I was new here and had to make an impression on people here. I still don't think any of my ideas are bad. Though, I agree that some of them are too difficult to execute. None of my ideas are right, but they may point us in a better direction than now. And as long as I believe they can make things better in some ways, I will stand by my suggestions.

You have never listened to any of my suggestions. If you listened, we would have had maybe 3 or 4 test tournaments to speak of and discuss by now. Instead we're in this endless discussion which aren't going anywhere. Nobody is going to spend time testing things, because we know what you're going to say and know you won't do anything about it.

Do you know what setup was the most popular on TS3? The setup that 90% of the tour used? YES 90%!

4 x 90. 90 on strokes, power and serve. Everyone used this setup with exception of handful of guys that were exceptional at the game. They used a "slightly different" setup. They said to themselves "I want a challenge, I want to win with a lesser player" and they did. They knew very well the risks of not using the 4x90. Same goes for our situation now....except we have 4 setups nearly on the same level. We have it WAY better now.

While TS3 game engine favored the 4x90 builds, TS4 have so much more different playstyles available. However, without any restrictions it is just these 3-4 coaches that are on top. Because they exploit their areas of the game-engine the best. While if we could find the perfect balance between overpowered and balanced, TS4 would become so much better. TS4 has so much more potential available that are being shredded by these extreme builds. We could possibly have 10-15 coaches in the top instead of 3-4!

Why was there a restriction to 40/90 in TS3 in the first place? Don't you think the TS3 tour would have been much worse if people were allowed to use 100 wings, 100 power and serve?

Anyway, pick a top 4 setup - master it. If you are looking for a fast, control hitting baseliner - Welch should be your guy. If you want a similar setup but just as strong - guess what? You don't have one. Use a tier 2 setup or Welch. If you want a Serve blasting 1-2 punch kinda guy - pick Babb. And so on.

I believe that if we find the perfect restrictions for the tier 1 builds, all tier 2 builds would have a chance in this game. Therefore I think it's wrong of you and the whole management to not arrange any test tournaments at all anymore. You had testers when the game came out. Why not throw some new ones now? We would get more information with one test tournament than all these months of discussing have given us.

[djarvik]

No, you are wrong. I am not denying anything. I am asking for proof and testing and I am questioning the "facts" presented. This is what I am supposed to do buddy If I would listen to your first rule suggestion - I would have to re-write the rules what? 9 times now? That is how many times you have re-written them. And every time "You were right!".

I never said I was right about anything. I only presented people with my ideas and tried to make people think about it. I was new here and had to make an impression on people here. I still don't think any of my ideas are bad. Though, I agree that some of them are too difficult to execute. None of my ideas are right, but they may point us in a better direction than now. And as long as I believe they can make things better in some ways, I will stand by my suggestions.

You have never listened to any of my suggestions. If you listened, we would have had maybe 3 or 4 test tournaments to speak of and discuss by now. Instead we're in this endless discussion which aren't going anywhere. Nobody is going to spend time testing things, because we know what you're going to say and know you won't do anything about it.

Do you know what setup was the most popular on TS3? The setup that 90% of the tour used? YES 90%!

4 x 90. 90 on strokes, power and serve. Everyone used this setup with exception of handful of guys that were exceptional at the game. They used a "slightly different" setup. They said to themselves "I want a challenge, I want to win with a lesser player" and they did. They knew very well the risks of not using the 4x90. Same goes for our situation now....except we have 4 setups nearly on the same level. We have it WAY better now.

While TS3 game engine favored the 4x90 builds, TS4 have so much more different playstyles available. However, without any restrictions it is just these 3-4 coaches that are on top. Because they exploit their areas of the game-engine the best. While if we could find the perfect balance between overpowered and balanced, TS4 would become so much better. TS4 has so much more potential available that are being shredded by these extreme builds. We could possibly have 10-15 coaches in the top instead of 3-4!

Why was there a restriction to 40/90 in TS3 in the first place? Don't you think the TS3 tour would have been much worse if people were allowed to use 100 wings, 100 power and serve?

Anyway, pick a top 4 setup - master it. If you are looking for a fast, control hitting baseliner - Welch should be your guy. If you want a similar setup but just as strong - guess what? You don't have one. Use a tier 2 setup or Welch. If you want a Serve blasting 1-2 punch kinda guy - pick Babb. And so on.

I believe that if we find the perfect restrictions for the tier 1 builds, all tier 2 builds would have a chance in this game. Therefore I think it's wrong of you and the whole management to not arrange any test tournaments at all anymore. You had testers when the game came out. Why not throw some new ones now? We would get more information with one test tournament than all these months of discussing have given us.

Stop saying "we". You not "we".

I listened to all your suggestions, didn't like any enough to implement or try and I did let you know about it too. The person who refuses to listen is you. Even now. You keep banging your head against the wall, instead of going around it.

"I was new here and had to make an impression on people here" - you sure did! ...and you had to? is this a popularity contest of sort for you?

Stop using TS3 as an example, it progressively works against your arguments. You have little experience and knowledge on the subject.
In TS3, it was possible to create players as you like them. Hence you could have created 100 power FH and BH player. The restriction were meant to somewhat tone down this.

Anyway, I see me going on Forum and posting responses and ideas is not a good thing. I think from now on, we shell keep this behind the scenes.

[Ary1g]

I have to correct myself. I meant that I wanted to make an impression here. In the beginning I was hoping to maybe get a title here of some sort someday, believing I was helpful to this site with posting my thoughts and suggestions. However, after a while I have understood that you don't appreciate suggestions very much and that you wasn't going to try anything anyway.

Also, yes, I never claimed to have a lot of experience with Ts3 other than playing it quite a lot. However, you stated that 90 % of the players on Itst Ts3 was using 4x90. Therefore, I can't believe that those 90 % wouldn't use 4x100 if they could. So why was there a need for restrictions in Ts3?

In TS3, it was possible to create players as you like them.

So you could create whatever setup you wanted and still be successful with it? I don't believe that. Just give me a good thorough answer on why TS3 needed restrictions. That's all I want answered really.

And stop telling me what to do. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. Deal with it. If you want to ban me, do whatever you want. I couldn't care less.

[djarvik]

Stop telling me to stop telling you what to do!

[Ary1g]

Haha, I'm tired of this.. Will there be done anything with TS4 any time soon? Any changes on Sim Tour? Cause I could help testing a new Sim Tour, otherwise I'm going to take a break from this site until TS5 or something.