topspin invasion

[Gahan1990]

Actually I got somehow the eastern weekend just 1 TI/MD opponent (17 matches played there) today I got 3 in a row
I beat 2 of them but the last one is in the Top 100 and I hadn't that much of a chance, actually I was lucky that it was at the Shanghai tournament and not US Open
He beat me 4-2 and 3-1
To play against these players isn't fun but hard work

[GOA MASTER MDMA]

Actually I take that back.
TI-MD is starting to take all the the fun out of itst for me

not the ti-md kills the fun for me ,
after this stupid patch from 2k the whole game is out of balance .
before the patch the game was pretty awesome (besides the servepower),but now ....totally shiitty game at all.
the movement sukks, the balance sukks,way to much unforced errors, and and and

the game is much more worst after the patch,than before.
i wished 2 k would removed this stupid patch .

so its not only "no fun "because this TI-MD coach !!

[polakis]

This is not tennis they are playing.They make perfect plays from every corner just because of these skills and not because they play good tennis! I am currently No22 in the world tour on xbox360 and i only loose from these cheaters! Perfect and annoying top spin shots in the corners and you cant do nothing! Please 2k make an update and tune them down because its unfair...

Whoever knows the game well if he puts TI/MD build is almost invincible. All the top players in world tour are like this. I dont, sorry...

TI/MD is a big advantage in the game. You cant play 2 sets in perfect plays to beat them. It happens 1 time in 10 matches so you loose all the trophies...

2k must tune them down if they want a fair game...

[Hamburgerboy27]

Actually I take that back.
TI-MD is starting to take all the the fun out of itst for me

not the ti-md kills the fun for me ,
after this stupid patch from 2k the whole game is out of balance .
before the patch the game was pretty awesome (besides the servepower),but now ....totally shiitty game at all.
the movement sukks, the balance sukks,way to much unforced errors, and and and

the game is much more worst after the patch,than before.
i wished 2 k would removed this stupid patch .

so its not only "no fun "because this TI-MD coach !!

Yes the Game is now a Joke...have play TS4 in the last 3 Weeks not right,only somtimes but after the Patch i have lose all my fun by TS4...the first 2-3 Weeks i like TS4 very much but now i must say TS3 was better and i see for me no future at the Time by TS4 and maybe i delete my WT Player in the next Time...i can say only:I hope off TS5 But i think my TS time is after TS3 too finish,have play earlier enought TS and when i see my Xbox Friends EVERY Day too play some hours only TS4 is this game a seeks and a little drug
Give enought good another Games not only TS...

TS1 was very good for Xbox
TS2 was Arcade but for a time funny
TS3 was the best TS have play this a long time and was one off the little seeks boys
TS4 after some weeks have i lose my Fun by/for this Game and is sure not the best TS or Tennis Game ever

The TP/MD discussion is only funny for me,can say after 500 TS4 Matches i have never lose because the TP/MD...is not a great advantage and the both skills come only sometimes in a Match to the worth.

MD=If you have 30:0 or 0:30 is not a difference have see this never
TP=Yes maybe is the 2,3 or 4 TP in a Game better but only TP Skills you can make similar TP...

I think some peoples have never the TP/MD Coaches and have not read the Skills right...you have the both Skills not EVERY Time in a Matches

[xMFHxMataiiBANNED]

This is not tennis they are playing.They make perfect plays from every corner just because of these skills and not because they play good tennis! I am currently No22 in the world tour on xbox360 and i only loose from these cheaters! Perfect and annoying top spin shots in the corners and you cant do nothing! Please 2k make an update and tune them down because its unfair...

Whoever knows the game well if he puts TI/MD build is almost invincible. All the top players in world tour are like this. I dont, sorry...

TI/MD is a big advantage in the game. You cant play 2 sets in perfect plays to beat them. It happens 1 time in 10 matches so you loose all the trophies...

2k must tune them down if they want a fair game...

Cheating? wow that pushing it now.. I've seen this with other games like Battlefield Bad Company 2.. people get killed by a gun alot so they moan non stop .. it gets nerfd.. NEXT! they get killed by the gun that was being countered by that gun... nerfd... NEXT!

anyway.. all I'll say is that this game is fun when you come up against opponents with weapons.. it seems that many here want to have players that can only return nice friendly useless shots back every time, until it allows them to get THEIR characters strengths to win it for them.. try starting a career again if you want that!

They could maybe lower the FH and BH a little to say +13 each.. but as I said.. the game will get really boring if we all have some middle of the road players with diluted skills.

How about improving the skills of say the slice? which can help counter the topspin?? I think ItaStallion doesnt use TI/MD??(Ita correct me if im wrong here) yet he is undefeated on TS4? so there are ways to neutralize it.. dont blame the game if you dont know them yet.

[venom400]

This is not tennis they are playing.They make perfect plays from every corner just because of these skills and not because they play good tennis! I am currently No22 in the world tour on xbox360 and i only loose from these cheaters! Perfect and annoying top spin shots in the corners and you cant do nothing! Please 2k make an update and tune them down because its unfair...

Whoever knows the game well if he puts TI/MD build is almost invincible. All the top players in world tour are like this. I dont, sorry...

TI/MD is a big advantage in the game. You cant play 2 sets in perfect plays to beat them. It happens 1 time in 10 matches so you loose all the trophies...

2k must tune them down if they want a fair game...

Cheating? wow that pushing it now.. I've seen this with other games like Battlefield Bad Company 2.. people get killed by a gun alot so they moan non stop .. it gets nerfd.. NEXT! they get killed by the gun that was being countered by that gun... nerfd... NEXT!

anyway.. all I'll say is that this game is fun when you come up against opponents with weapons.. it seems that many here want to have players that can only return nice friendly useless shots back every time, until it allows them to get THEIR characters strengths to win it for them.. try starting a career again if you want that!

They could maybe lower the FH and BH a little to say +13 each.. but as I said.. the game will get really boring if we all have some middle of the road players with diluted skills.

How about improving the skills of say the slice? which can help counter the topspin?? I think ItaStallion doesnt use TI/MD??(Ita correct me if im wrong here) yet he is undefeated on TS4? so there are ways to neutralize it.. dont blame the game if you dont know them yet.

THe point is that I don't know what we are playing here but this is not tennis , when have you seen the pros hit the serve lines out from the base line ?

If you balance the game there will be more rallies and smarter ways to win the points .

[tigerofintegrity]

Cheating? wow that pushing it now.. I've seen this with other games like Battlefield Bad Company 2.. people get killed by a gun alot so they moan non stop .. it gets nerfd.. NEXT! they get killed by the gun that was being countered by that gun... nerfd... NEXT!

anyway.. all I'll say is that this game is fun when you come up against opponents with weapons.. it seems that many here want to have players that can only return nice friendly useless shots back every time, until it allows them to get THEIR characters strengths to win it for them.. try starting a career again if you want that!

They could maybe lower the FH and BH a little to say +13 each.. but as I said.. the game will get really boring if we all have some middle of the road players with diluted skills.

How about improving the skills of say the slice? which can help counter the topspin?? I think ItaStallion doesnt use TI/MD??(Ita correct me if im wrong here) yet he is undefeated on TS4? so there are ways to neutralize it.. dont blame the game if you dont know them yet.

Totally agree with this. Being outplayed on the court constitutes cheating? Then Nadal on a clay court is the biggest cheater ever and we should eject him from the sport!

It's up to players to find a way to win, either by improving or finding different tactics. People just constantly talk about TI/MD like it's invincible. It's not and I don't even think it's the best build out there.

I get people who want it to be more realistic, I don't get people who complain they can't win because someone is hitting really amazing shots against them and can't do anything about it. That's called being dominated in tennis. Good players are good players for a reason and are going to always pressure you with good shots. They don't become good players by giving you an easy ball to hit every time.

They make perfect plays from every corner just because of these skills and not because they play good tennis!

Totally untrue. You do not hit every corner just because you're using a TI/MD player. I've played lots of players using that build who are quite frankly bad players and are just as easy as any other bad player. I mean, if you understand this game you'd realise that you hit the line and corners with perfect timing. And if they manage that against you, well then that just means they're good. Otherwise a bad TI/MD or any other build will not hit the corners against you.

Perfect and annoying top spin shots in the corners and you cant do nothing!

Also not true. You can do something if you're good enough. Good anticipation, reading the game, being in position, perfect timing your shots, knowing which shot to use and where to put it... that's what you can do about it and that's what I and other top players do about it. I don't use TI/MD and I can deal with their deep top spin shots fine.

Please 2k make an update and tune them down because its unfair...

Also not true. What's not fair is when a really good player plays a player who isn't on the same level and then they get wiped off the court. This is going to happen regardless of what build either player is using. What's not fair is the difference in skill between two players when one gets a beating, not what they're playing as.

If you balance the game there will be more rallies and smarter ways to win the points.

There already are lots of rallies and the smartest way to win a point is to play the way that wins you the point. If you're playing a winning game then you're playing a smart game.

[dsavbeast012]

This is not tennis they are playing.They make perfect plays from every corner just because of these skills and not because they play good tennis! I am currently No22 in the world tour on xbox360 and i only loose from these cheaters! Perfect and annoying top spin shots in the corners and you cant do nothing! Please 2k make an update and tune them down because its unfair...

Whoever knows the game well if he puts TI/MD build is almost invincible. All the top players in world tour are like this. I dont, sorry...

TI/MD is a big advantage in the game. You cant play 2 sets in perfect plays to beat them. It happens 1 time in 10 matches so you loose all the trophies...

2k must tune them down if they want a fair game...

Cheating? wow that pushing it now.. I've seen this with other games like Battlefield Bad Company 2.. people get killed by a gun alot so they moan non stop .. it gets nerfd.. NEXT! they get killed by the gun that was being countered by that gun... nerfd... NEXT!

anyway.. all I'll say is that this game is fun when you come up against opponents with weapons.. it seems that many here want to have players that can only return nice friendly useless shots back every time, until it allows them to get THEIR characters strengths to win it for them.. try starting a career again if you want that!

They could maybe lower the FH and BH a little to say +13 each.. but as I said.. the game will get really boring if we all have some middle of the road players with diluted skills.

How about improving the skills of say the slice? which can help counter the topspin?? I think ItaStallion doesnt use TI/MD??(Ita correct me if im wrong here) yet he is undefeated on TS4? so there are ways to neutralize it.. dont blame the game if you dont know them yet.

Um, when someone can use one button to paint the lines on every shot, it's not a) realistic or b) fun. It would be OK if there was some way to make these guys hit UEs occasionally, but the lack of UEs throws that out of the window. So I'm at the mercy of some guy yo yoing me w/ one button and an overpowered coach. Takes little skill and is not real tennis. Period.

[dsavbeast012]

Totally agree with this. Being outplayed on the court constitutes cheating? Then Nadal on a clay court is the biggest cheater ever and we should eject him from the sport!

It's up to players to find a way to win, either by improving or finding different tactics. People just constantly talk about TI/MD like it's invincible. It's not and I don't even think it's the best build out there.

I get people who want it to be more realistic, I don't get people who complain they can't win because someone is hitting really amazing shots against them and can't do anything about it. That's called being dominated in tennis. Good players are good players for a reason and are going to always pressure you with good shots. They don't become good players by giving you an easy ball to hit every time.

Again, there's a difference between being a good player that hits good shots and being a guy that uses one button every shot to paint lines unrealistically. TI/MD makes the game too easy for those that use it, just hit one button and you win.

I have no problem losing, heck I wasn't even as pissed about the big servers as I am about TI/MD. But the fact that there's really no way to counter it - you can't slice them into errors b/c they just get everything back, you can't even try to come to net since every passing shot has topspin and is difficult to handle. What pro hits every line every match? What pro is able to hit every shot topspin and no errors? Nadal, but if I wanted to play Nadal all day I'd play 2K open.

So you're saying I should be OK w/ a coach that makes every player online Nadal basically? No skill, just one button to win? That should be fine? Sorry, not buying it.

Totally untrue. You do not hit every corner just because you're using a TI/MD player. I've played lots of players using that build who are quite frankly bad players and are just as easy as any other bad player. I mean, if you understand this game you'd realise that you hit the line and corners with perfect timing. And if they manage that against you, well then that just means they're good. Otherwise a bad TI/MD or any other build will not hit the corners against you.

Again, lack of UEs make timing irrelevant. They may hit one short ball, but if you don't hit a winner they're right back to painting the lines w/ topspin. It's quite simple, TI/MD makes the game inherently easier for those that use it, it is overpowered and needs to be toned down. Or at least 2K should make it possible to force errors, right now that is impossible. Try slicing and see how far you get. Try coming in to net and see how long that works.

Also not true. You can do something if you're good enough. Good anticipation, reading the game, being in position, perfect timing your shots, knowing which shot to use and where to put it... that's what you can do about it and that's what I and other top players do about it. I don't use TI/MD and I can deal with their deep top spin shots fine.

So basically if you think TI/MD is overpowered you suck. Got it. You can't see how hitting lines every shot and ridiculous angles w/ no UEs is unrealistic?

Also not true. What's not fair is when a really good player plays a player who isn't on the same level and then they get wiped off the court. This is going to happen regardless of what build either player is using. What's not fair is the difference in skill between two players when one gets a beating, not what they're playing as.

Stop it with this nonsense. I'm not the greatest player in the world, but I'd consider myself decent. Level 10 in quick matches. But now online it's impossible b/c every person that's my level is a TI/MD cheeser. It's not fun to play the players with the same style, same tactics, same shots, time after time. My main gripe is that there's no recourse. No UEs, no way to hope they mess up. It's BS.

There already are lots of rallies and the smartest way to win a point is to play the way that wins you the point. If you're playing a winning game then you're playing a smart game.

Great advice.

Apparently you're the GOAT at this game which is fine, but TI/MD for us average players looking to have fun and a fair match is an overpowered style. It makes average players good, good players great, and great players unbeatable. I've already seen in other threads where guys switch to TI/Md and become unbeatable. That's not a fair gamestyle, period.

[jayl0ve]

Just keep this in mind folks, no matter what changes they make to the game, the same people are still gonna win the majority of the time. There's no balance update in the world that will transform a run-of-the-mill scrub into a good player.

Enjoy

[dsavbeast012]

Just keep this in mind folks, no matter what changes they make to the game, the same people are still gonna win the majority of the time. There's no balance update in the world that will transform a run-of-the-mill scrub into a good player.

Enjoy

And again - I don't care about being #1 in the world or anything like that. I just want to have a fun match sometimes, win or loss, and w/ TI/MD guys that's nearly impossible. I don't care if I lose every match - ok maybe that's an exaggeration.

I just want it to be fun. Again, like I said, I played alot online the first few weeks, won some matches and lost some. The power servers sucked and I'm glad they fixed that to an extent. But to me TI/MD is worse. I could at least slice and hope to beat the power guys from time to time. W/ TI/MD there's nothing. No UEs = no point in using strategy, at least online.

I'll just stick to offline for now w/ online matches w/ friends who win or lose, play the game the right way.

[xMFHxMataiiBANNED]

Um, when someone can use one button to paint the lines on every shot, it's not a) realistic or b) fun. It would be OK if there was some way to make these guys hit UEs occasionally, but the lack of UEs throws that out of the window. So I'm at the mercy of some guy yo yoing me w/ one button and an overpowered coach. Takes little skill and is not real tennis. Period.

Ok but now try this approach: maybe you're making a mistake tactically.. when I play if I hit a ball short or make certain other mistakes that put me in a bad position I know for a fact that a good player will finish me off, and I deserved to be finished off! he either pulled me out of position or put me under pressure so that I was forced to hit a short ball/mistimed ball so that he could push up the court and finish me off. - that is tennis. The thing you have to ask yourself is what did I do wrong to get into that position and what can I do next time to avoid it.

I play against the same players you do and I have been able to neutralized them - some better than others. sometimes I lose a point outright from a good 3 shots and I have to say 'ok that was too good -next point ' sometimes Im able to pull it back and end up winning but you have to outthink and outplay your opponent.

Oh and unforced errors are there now since the last update.

But again I say.. 'ItaStallion' doesnt use TI/MD yet he is undefeated.. so he knows how to neutralize it too. - also refer to the post about TI/MD - TI only kicks in a couple shots in and MD only comes into things when you're about 0-30.

[Crotatsuya]

Sorry to bother some of you again, but being called a cheater just because I was smart enough to use the best setup for an online game is quite insulting. Are you a cheater in Fifa the moment you choose FC Barcelona where every pass is perfect and goals are scored from seemingly unrealistic positions if the timing is right? Come on. Everyone has the chance to do so, if you don't want to look for a way to beat it. But all this whining about a setup is really annoying after a while. There are so many people with TI/MD that seriously suck at this game, if a guy paints the corners as you say, he is simply really good and has perfect timing every time. ItaStallion paints the corners just as well every time, and he's not even using TI/MD, so what do you want to do about that? People seem to forget that this is just a game, built to be fun first. I think TI/MD matches are fun, realism aside. The game is realistic enough to qualify for being kind of a sim (seriously, play the VT4 demo and compare), but I'd rather see unrealistic angles than unforced errors for no apparent reason. You can outplay TI/MD if you are clever, I won't spoil it for you however, try to find it out for yourself first. The fun in these matters actually is to find things like this out for yourself and be happy abut it the moment you realize it works.

I'd really like to see Pei Jing Quah with +10 fh/bh instead of 15, or with significantly less power though, even if it'd effect my own game since I am one of those "cheaters" that "cheated" its way up to become world tour leader. (thank you safe file bug for erasing all stats...-.-)

Sorry if anyone should feel offended, but to each his own.

PS:*God playing Top Spin 4 online -
3 days later Moses descends from Mount Sinai again with a third stone tablet and 11th commandment inscribed in stone, literally cited: "Thou shalst not TI/MD!!11!1oneeleven/ragequit"

[tigerofintegrity]

You know, I'm starting to agree with the guys who want SIM tour asap now. The sooner it's up, the sooner everyone can play in it and see whether players are just better or TI/MD makes them better.

[dsavbeast012]

Um, when someone can use one button to paint the lines on every shot, it's not a) realistic or b) fun. It would be OK if there was some way to make these guys hit UEs occasionally, but the lack of UEs throws that out of the window. So I'm at the mercy of some guy yo yoing me w/ one button and an overpowered coach. Takes little skill and is not real tennis. Period.

Ok but now try this approach: maybe you're making a mistake tactically.. when I play if I hit a ball short or make certain other mistakes that put me in a bad position I know for a fact that a good player will finish me off, and I deserved to be finished off! he either pulled me out of position or put me under pressure so that I was forced to hit a short ball/mistimed ball so that he could push up the court and finish me off. - that is tennis. The thing you have to ask yourself is what did I do wrong to get into that position and what can I do next time to avoid it.

I play against the same players you do and I have been able to neutralized them - some better than others. sometimes I lose a point outright from a good 3 shots and I have to say 'ok that was too good -next point ' sometimes Im able to pull it back and end up winning but you have to outthink and outplay your opponent.

Oh and unforced errors are there now since the last update.

But again I say.. 'ItaStallion' doesnt use TI/MD yet he is undefeated.. so he knows how to neutralize it too. - also refer to the post about TI/MD - TI only kicks in a couple shots in and MD only comes into things when you're about 0-30.

Look I'm not stupid. I play tennis, I watch tennis, I know what works and what doesn't. When I'm hitting the ball deep you shouldn't be able to counter that by hitting the lines or sick angles every shot w/o hitting UEs. I come to the net and it works occasionally but eventually topspin wins out. There's still not nearly enough UEs and that's one point i will not back down on.

Guys shouldn't be able to hit lines and angles w/ no risk of the UE. In real tennis you go for the lines, you risk hitting an error. That element doesn't exist in TS. Therefore, these TI guys can go for lines every shot and not have to worry AB UEs. It's not a factor at all in this game. The timing isn't nearly damning enough to truly worry about an UE from mistimed shots.

Like I said - I'm just an average player. Not a god. So for me of course the TI/MD is harder to face. I'm not saying everyone should be a scrub so I should be #1 in the world, but there's a definite difference between the advantage of TI/MD and the one from other coaches. It's overpowered and needs to be balanced.

And I know I'm not the only one, the fact that this thread is so long says that the gripe is a legit one and needs to be balanced out.