ITST Realism?

[advocateof04]

Hey there...just wanted to spit out a few lines about the direction that the tour has taken with TS4.

I, more than anyone, am extremely annoyed and bothered by the excessive control shots which I see top players using these days. I think the game has made this tool too effective; however, players still should take the responsibility of exploiting it.

The tour is founded on players that strive for realism and I feel a bit of corruption has occurred with the successes of players using this strategy; now all people do is play whichever way they can to win. I don't hold back, when I feel someone overusing these shots I typically call them out, and I am so tired of the excuses like, "it is a GAME, nothing realistic, you cant be realistic even if you try." ~from a very dominant player on tour currently.

I wish these types of people would just enjoy the GAME and leave the tour to those that actually want some type of realism; it's a WIN-WIN for everyone! And just a reminder to those that are defensive written on the homepage of this tour are these words, "In short, we do our very best to blur the line between gaming fantasy and tennis reality."

[zaid137]

you are being so offensive " and I am so tired of the excuses like, "it is a GAME, nothing realistic, you cant be realistic even if you try."

excuse ???? , i told you that because it is really a game . do you think you are playing real tennis ??

what exactly you want ??? i let you win ?? you told me you hate short cross so i minimized it , i played 80 % of my shots deep to the court, you played short cross more than me . , now you come and say dont use control shots . !!!
if i stop using control shots , you will come up with a new thing .
come on , just have a sportmanship , after all of our matches , you come and give the same talk . negative comments , you did that and that and that so you won . never said GG NEVER ., and it seems you never appreciate when someone shows u his respect . i changed my game just so you ENJOY our matches( remember telling me you dont enjoy our matches because in your opinion i overuse shortcross shots ,which imo u use them as much as i do ) , and in reply you come on public saying what i have told you in private messages , good job mate .

[BrokeAddict]

Are you and straightcash05 brothers? Nick is kind of smilar plus hes always bitching for no reason as well

[advocateof04]

Hey, I'm not here to address anyone directly or publicly talk about anyone personally, that's not very professional and this isn't the medium for that. Just stating an opinion. I've played on itst for years and I'm just stating that when I first joined, there seemed to be more of an appreciation for realistic play styles and not just effective play styles which won a lot of matches.

I had a lot more fun in the beginning playing against players like djarvik, brger, petrelli, The Hoff, fedfan, etc that were beating up on me and I was losing all the time, but at least it was exciting playing those matches. Now, I look at some of my matches as something that I just need to finish quickly so I can do something else. I know the TS4 game change has a lot to do with this, but I still feel players are exploiting the downfalls of the game to be more successful on the tour.

That's all...

[ICEMAN_9588]

Some people in WT told me things like "Are you having fun?" "Do you know it's just a game?" "Why don't you retire and let other players win?"

Well, first of all, you cant create a World Tour, ITST Tour, Whatever Tour, with points, tournaments, rankings, head to head and pretend people would not want to win as much as they can.
Yes, officially the first thing, the most important, is to have fun with other guys from all over the world. Fantastic.

But you cant escape the fact that it's on based on competition. And of course, everyone gets excited by the idea of winning.
Yes, even if it's a videogame.

But it's also true that, as I just said, we're talking about a videogame.
I train because I want to win. But if I lose cause my player is better, I say "good game, well played" and go on.
To me, that's the key. Yes, try to improve yourself, but remember it's just a hobby, a funny hobby.
Nothing more.

PS And anyway advocate, TS4 is not so realistic.
As I've already said many other times, this game allows you to serve 85-90% first serves with 210-220 kmh average speed, it allows you to hit 70-80 winners in a 3 set match (or 120-130 in a 5-setter), with less than 15 unforced (or 10 unforced).
For the top guys it's almost impossible to hit the ball out. I mean, it's hard even for me to miss, sometimes! XD

Not so realistic at all,in my opinion.

[straightcash05]

Are you and straightcash05 brothers? Nick is kind of smilar plus hes always bitching for no reason as well

Advocate is a cool guy, not anywhere near the asshole I am.

I have beat you each time we played without much of a problem, and I still complained about your cheesy tactics because it's weak to play like that.

You play cheesy, you spam r1 shots the whole match. The tactic completely exploits the game. Alot of guys use this tactic now it seems. Zaid even uses a setup with Approach Shots Expert to exploit the r1 shot. How do you think he can beat Obskur who is far and away the better player? Because he uses excellent r1 shots/serves, and completely uses drop shots from defensive positions and against returns (at least once a game which is cheesy as you rarely see it used against a return).

[BrokeAddict]

R1 shots without the approach shot skill arent more effective than normal shots, theres a thread about it but i know you live in your own world and actual facts dont bother you.

[zaid137]

Zaid even uses a setup with Approach Shots Expert to exploit the r1 shot. How do you think he can beat Obskur who is far and away the better player? Because he uses excellent r1 shots/serves, and completely uses drop shots from defensive positions and against returns (at least once a game which is cheesy as you rarely see it used against a return).

straightcash , you cant leave anyone alone !!! is that in your blood !! do you have to put your nose in everything ??? i use dropshots from defensive positions ?? at least one in every game ??? ARE YOU SERIOUS ?? then i should have got 1000 of reports against me you are so funny , and so weird and as u described yourself above .
you have no right to talk from yourself , without any knowledge , describing my game . because you really dont know my game . i dont have to explain anything but im doing it because you are giving a wrong image . i serve with r1 , i dont see any problem with that , it is in my system i do it subconsciously, totally nothing wrong with that . i never used dropshots from defensive position ,or from return of serve , i use them in the right time when i feel it is the right shot to play.... you are so weird , i played you once but you talk as if i played you 10-20 times .
BUT AT LEAST , i dont play with autopositioning which is totally exploiting the game by making players with mid 50s speed run like NADAL , hitting harder shots ,and recover faster . that is what autopositioning does for those who dont know . and THAT IS WHAT I CALL CHEESY . not using r1 serve , which is incomparable to the advantages of autopositioning.
in your eyes obskur is faaaaaaar better , i have no problem with that , but that is in your eyes and stay as your opinion only . and everyone has his hands and can talk about himself .for example ,you can talk about yourself ( 3 years playing the tour , never managed to win a title , still in a negative winning percentage , but you do one thing perfectly , which is crying ,complaining and fighting with everyone . ) go learn how to play instead of talking so much and doing so little .

[zaid137]

ICEMAN , well said mate , i totally agree with you .

[straightcash05]

Zaid your English is awful. Again you're not getting what I'm saying. I said you use drop shots AGAINST my returns, not on YOUR returns, god you're thick.

I said you use the drop shot against my returns at least once every service game, NOT defensive drop shots (again you understand nothing).

R1 shots are cheesy, they, if used right, will make your shots harder to return deep, they also fake as if you're coming to net, how is that not cheesy???

You use r1 shots with your Neuwirth as well, surely if they weren't effective you wouldn't use them. You use a setup with Approach Shots Expert...... don't give me that bs that it's not cheesy, you're faking coming to net, that alone, rather it's effective or not is cheesy.

Lol. I indeed haven't won a tournament, but I haven't been playing ITST for 3 years, the game has been out two years, apparently you can't count either. It took me awhile before I got good enough to win on here, so yes, I have a negative w/l, though barely, and it's plus this year. Don't let your head get big winning tournaments during this time, nearly all of the elite players stopped playing after the US Open, you didn't win one when they were playing. Top players now are the equivalent of a tier 3 back then, with the exception of Obskur. Obskur plays extremely fair, heck he hardly uses short crosses at all, he uses a Rabary and wins playing in the most realistic manner you can on here. Play him without your r1 spam on serve and shots, I guarantee you will have no chance of beating him, as you barely can with them.

[advocateof04]

Hey there...mr ICE, your comments about the game are dead on; I totally agree. I don't think people are doing anything "wrong", but I'm just stating that there is a sense of disappointment only because I know how enjoyable playing this game can be and it's disappointing to me personally.

The tour is based on competition too and you want to win, but I guess I expected players in a forum such as this one to still value the essence of tennis more. To be honest, I know how to play the successful game style that many players use with the excessive control shots and I would probably do significantly better against them if I used it, but I personally find it not fulfilling at all since I do in fact value the potential realism of this game. For me, I come here for the realism of the game, not winning titles; therefore, I respect and enjoy playing with players that I feel play more realistic more than those that I feel are competing for titles.

Those non-realistic components you mentioned are significantly skewed in this game (lack of errors, serve percentages, etc); however, I don't feel those game flaws can be exploited in a way to give a player an advantage in match. On the other hand, you cannot convince me that the overpowered control shots (which I consider another flaw of the game) are not exploited by a lot of top players and almost used exclusively to either hit ridiculous no pace winners or set up points for easy putaways.

That's all...

[zaid137]

" uses drop shots from defensive positions and against returns (at least once a game which is cheesy as you rarely see it used against a return)"

then

I said you use drop shots AGAINST my returns, not on YOUR returns, god you're thick.
I said you use the drop shot against my returns at least once every service game, NOT defensive drop shots (again you understand nothing).

it seems you were drunk and didnt know what you were writing so you didnt say i use drop shots from defensive position .
and you say i am thick , understand nothing and dont know how to count too you should wish that you can play as well as you can talk . i feel sorry for you

"R1 shots are cheesy, they, if used right, will make your shots harder to return deep, they also fake as if you're coming to net, how is that not cheesy???

You use r1 shots with your Neuwirth as well, surely if they weren't effective you wouldn't use them. You use a setup with Approach Shots Expert...... don't give me that bs that it's not cheesy, you're faking coming to net, that alone, rather it's effective or not is cheesy."
again you are assuming things and accusing without knowing . i dont use r1 the way u described it , i use r1 when i approach the net MOSTLY , but sometimes i hit the winner before getting to the net and yes sometimes i change my mind and dont follow it because not all my shots are perfect so no point of going to the net and be in a bad position ,so no need to assume things that you didnt see . i definitely dont use it all the time or just to make my shots more effective as you are trying too hard to show to people .
and i see everyone uses it without approaching the net . do one thing kid , go and report everyone on this website .
i upload these pix for the statistics of my matches so you shut your mouth and stop accusing people without knowing their play style .
with all respect to the opponents in the pictures , i will delete them if you feel uncomfortable .
http://imageshack.us/a/img18/328/ajman2013031901845.jpg this is with my good mate obskur
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7953/14445042.jpg
this was with papous , one of the best players around and good friend of me .
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4110/94093768.jpg
and this is with my good friend kaiotib .

the idea behind that is that i want to show YOU and others how many times i approach the net , too many isn't it ?? then i dont think im abusing the r1 . but losers like yourself will take it as an excuses against my success .
and it seems too difficult for you to admit that other players had improved and became better players . instead ,you have all the time to come and create accusations and fake things just to show that they are bad and not good enough .
weather you like it or not , i have improved alot , the 1st match i played obskur he beat me 6-0 6-0 , and that wasnt long ago , i worked so hard to improve all parts of my game and now i can compete with the like of him , the elite players you described .
weather you like it or not i totally deserve the matches i won, and your words count for nothing . it is just showing the weak personality you have . again i tell you , you talk so much and do so little . your condition is hopeless .

you are too bad at playing this game boy , why dont you retire . .
why did you avoid replying back on what i said about autopositioning !! it is not cheesy ??? it makes your player run way faster than his speed ability limit . recover faster from dead position and get to the next shot which is suppose to be a winner ( sometimes i hit a perfect shot that is noway in normal circumstances will get back , then i see the other player flashes to it and guess what , hit it so hard and deep even if it is behind his body ) now tell me what is that !! . that is the real cheese . but you didnt reply on that because you and some top players use that and have the big advantages so you avoided talking about it . autopositioning is the cheesiest thing in this game .
and stop defending others and talk about yourself only . obskur is a great player and a nice guy , we have all the respect between us , in both matches i won against him , he never never said something bad or disrespected me , he said gg wp and leave .that is sportmanship that u heavily lack , so stop trying to involve him in this . talk about yourself only .

[ICEMAN_9588]

Hey there...mr ICE, your comments about the game are dead on; I totally agree. I don't think people are doing anything "wrong", but I'm just stating that there is a sense of disappointment only because I know how enjoyable playing this game can be and it's disappointing to me personally.

The tour is based on competition too and you want to win, but I guess I expected players in a forum such as this one to still value the essence of tennis more. To be honest, I know how to play the successful game style that many players use with the excessive control shots and I would probably do significantly better against them if I used it, but I personally find it not fulfilling at all since I do in fact value the potential realism of this game. For me, I come here for the realism of the game, not winning titles; therefore, I respect and enjoy playing with players that I feel play more realistic more than those that I feel are competing for titles.

Those non-realistic components you mentioned are significantly skewed in this game (lack of errors, serve percentages, etc); however, I don't feel those game flaws can be exploited in a way to give a player an advantage in match. On the other hand, you cannot convince me that the overpowered control shots (which I consider another flaw of the game) are not exploited by a lot of top players and almost used exclusively to either hit ridiculous no pace winners or set up points for easy putaways.

That's all...

I absolutely understand your feelings about that.
You're not the first one that come up with this words.

I can make an example: I'm playing agst an user that plays with control shots all the time. I choose not to use them: I'm losing like 4-0 in the first set, but I know that I could compete with him if I'd use control shots too.
What should I do? I continue playing like before: I lose 6-1 6-0.
I start playing with control shots: then I'll have some chances.

So I think "hey, it's a tournament, I would like to win", so I play with control shots.
But I also think "after the match, I'll invite my opponent to play a friendly one, without using control shots all the time".

If you're searching for fun, I don't think World Tour or ITST Tour are the best places, for the reasons I've told you before.
We're talking about a place (WT) where you're insulted cause you simply play better than some other guys.
You win? You're a cheater.
You're succesful? You don't have a life.
Is there some lag? You're lucky.
You have a 100 power player setup? Cheater again.

Is this the place where you find fun?
No, not to me. So when a PSN friend asks me for a match, I say "ok, why not", so we can take a break from all this competition we're surrounded by.
And dont mistake me, when I face a guy better than me, I may get frustrated during and after the match, but it lasts 5 minutes, than I say "well played".
I hate losing, as many others here, and probably that's why I understand why 95% of users just wants to win.
So in WT I can deal with this, and in ITST too.
It's like saying "I came prepared".

PS If we're gonna face each others in Miami R16, can I use control shots all the time?
No ok, I'm joking

[Ali-Iqb93]

I agree with zaid.. People today just use lame excuses to cover their loss.. About straightcash I think he clearly has issues. He complains about everyone and keeps on exaggerating things based on lies.. I m surprised that why don't the management ever takes a action against him even after so many people have complained against him. He's so annoying.

[advocateof04]

Hey there...mr ICE, your comments about the game are dead on; I totally agree. I don't think people are doing anything "wrong", but I'm just stating that there is a sense of disappointment only because I know how enjoyable playing this game can be and it's disappointing to me personally.

The tour is based on competition too and you want to win, but I guess I expected players in a forum such as this one to still value the essence of tennis more. To be honest, I know how to play the successful game style that many players use with the excessive control shots and I would probably do significantly better against them if I used it, but I personally find it not fulfilling at all since I do in fact value the potential realism of this game. For me, I come here for the realism of the game, not winning titles; therefore, I respect and enjoy playing with players that I feel play more realistic more than those that I feel are competing for titles.

Those non-realistic components you mentioned are significantly skewed in this game (lack of errors, serve percentages, etc); however, I don't feel those game flaws can be exploited in a way to give a player an advantage in match. On the other hand, you cannot convince me that the overpowered control shots (which I consider another flaw of the game) are not exploited by a lot of top players and almost used exclusively to either hit ridiculous no pace winners or set up points for easy putaways.

That's all...

I absolutely understand your feelings about that.
You're not the first one that come up with this words.

I can make an example: I'm playing agst an user that plays with control shots all the time. I choose not to use them: I'm losing like 4-0 in the first set, but I know that I could compete with him if I'd use control shots too.
What should I do? I continue playing like before: I lose 6-1 6-0.
I start playing with control shots: then I'll have some chances.

So I think "hey, it's a tournament, I would like to win", so I play with control shots.
But I also think "after the match, I'll invite my opponent to play a friendly one, without using control shots all the time".

If you're searching for fun, I don't think World Tour or ITST Tour are the best places, for the reasons I've told you before.
We're talking about a place (WT) where you're insulted cause you simply play better than some other guys.
You win? You're a cheater.
You're succesful? You don't have a life.
Is there some lag? You're lucky.
You have a 100 power player setup? Cheater again.

Is this the place where you find fun?
No, not to me. So when a PSN friend asks me for a match, I say "ok, why not", so we can take a break from all this competition we're surrounded by.
And dont mistake me, when I face a guy better than me, I may get frustrated during and after the match, but it lasts 5 minutes, than I say "well played".
I hate losing, as many others here, and probably that's why I understand why 95% of users just wants to win.
So in WT I can deal with this, and in ITST too.
It's like saying "I came prepared".

PS If we're gonna face each others in Miami R16, can I use control shots all the time?
No ok, I'm joking

You're totally right here, agree again with everything you said. Only difference between us seems to be our contrasting level of acceptance for the nature of ITST competition. You seem more practical and understand that it's just another medium for competition and can accept that people play to win vs. to enjoy the game. For me, it's a bit different.

The way I play itst is the way I play friendly matches; the fact that people have a non-competitive style and a competitive style is I guess is what bothers me. This is not how this tour used to be; the initial slew of top players loved to win, but didn't compromise the integrity of the intended realism of this tour to win like many do today; the mentality of today's itst player is different from those in the past--that is my biggest disappointment.