Returns

[Corbon]

Probably nothing in this game pisses me off more than the godawful return mechanics in TS4. From what I've experienced, having a high speed and high reflex value improves your chances to hit better returns but even with both skills in the red I often see my player returning an 80-90 mph serve with perfect timing on my "red" forehand with the power of a top spin control shot, right into the forehand of my opponent who promptly punishes it. Or when you're on the ad side and your serve and volley opponent serves wide on your backhand, the only way to answer it is a long line top spin shot, which is of course slow and often waiting to be punished by a strong volley.

I have not played with a Return Serve Counter coach but I think that the mechanics are similar to Shot Counter which am 99% sure also works on serves, at least I remember hitting more return winners on average. Instant rocket is also helpful to build up power more quickly on medium speed serves (it's very noticable when playing against Serena on Pro+).

I strongly agree that removing risk returns was a good move, because otherwise serve and volley would be 100% non-competitive (well that's actually kinda realistic).

So what's your strategy to hit a good return?

[jayb1988]

I haven't found that many players who can return my serve particularly well, although the top guys seem to be able to push me back with top spins quite easily.

My return is probably the best part of my game and I enjoy the challenge of reading a serve. I think it improves just by playing alot of different serve styles.

Some people change it up constantly which is the hardest to read, but slow serves are useless to return flat as they are easily put away so go for a top spin down the line or cross court. If they are REALLY slow, then try backing off and powering up to smash back the return.

I find lightening serves the best to return against and tend to hit alot of winners or shots which make the player stumble back simply by timing the flat shot at the right moment usually down the line, but obviously this is just down to practice.

Also, move in for the second serve or if both serves are relatively slow to cover the angles if they hit wide so you are not dragged out of court too much and can usually stay more aggressive.

With volley players, either a long top spin down the line makes them stretch too much to stay in the point, or hitting a low slice down the middle works best for me.

[Corbon]

Passing a CPU S&V player on the forehand side is fairly easy with a longline top spin because these chars naturally lack power and do wide-serving all the time to compensate for it. For some reason top spins work better, maybe because there's a "dead point" when the ball passes over the net which doesn't allow the opponent to hit the ball at all. A lot of top spin passing shots appear like lobs.

I also think that spin serves are rather pointless, they're good to mildly surprise your opponent a couple of times but not good enough to build up points.

[iBullet91]

jayb1988, would you say use control shots or power shots for the returns?

I tend to always use power returns...the timing on control returns is really hard. I tend to end up hitting auto swings using control shots

[Andymachine]

Probably nothing in this game pisses me off more than the godawful return mechanics in TS4. From what I've experienced, having a high speed and high reflex value improves your chances to hit better returns but even with both skills in the red I often see my player returning an 80-90 mph serve with perfect timing on my "red" forehand with the power of a top spin control shot, right into the forehand of my opponent who promptly punishes it. Or when you're on the ad side and your serve and volley opponent serves wide on your backhand, the only way to answer it is a long line top spin shot, which is of course slow and often waiting to be punished by a strong volley.

I have not played with a Return Serve Counter coach but I think that the mechanics are similar to Shot Counter which am 99% sure also works on serves, at least I remember hitting more return winners on average. Instant rocket is also helpful to build up power more quickly on medium speed serves (it's very noticable when playing against Serena on Pro+).

I strongly agree that removing risk returns was a good move, because otherwise serve and volley would be 100% non-competitive (well that's actually kinda realistic).

So what's your strategy to hit a good return?

I dunno about removing risk returns, they werent as easy to hit as what
some people thought , the thing i miss tho mostly is the freedom of choice , for example if a ball was going out in TS3 you could still hit it , but in TS4 it stops you from doing it , which is really not realistic at all lol

[jayb1988]

jayb1988, would you say use control shots or power shots for the returns?

I tend to always use power returns...the timing on control returns is really hard. I tend to end up hitting auto swings using control shots

I guess it depends on how they are serving at you mostly. I find that I don't often face such a weak serve that I have the time to use power returns, and I like to be close or over the baseline to get an effective return anyway.

If you are using control returns, it is possible to get regular timing with practice on the flat shot, which means you blast the ball back if the serve is hard enough and can win you alot of points.

For the hardest serves I guess a top spin control to the back of the court would be ok just to at least keep it in play otherwise a controlled flat shot will likely just drop mid court.

Some players are smart and will change their speed so it's hard to get into a rhythm so the best thing is to try and react to the serve at the last possible second, but basically just think of this:

Lightening serves - Top Spin Control to back of the court

Hard serves - Instinctive flat control shot, usually down the line to try and get a winner.

Average and slow serves - flat control shot if just about fast enough, otherwise back off and power up a return if any slower.

[iBullet91]

Ok. Thanks for the advice man.

Think I'll practice some control returns in WT then.

[Corbon]

Thinking about a return build. Obviously the char must have a high Reflex value and fairly high Speed so it would be a mix of S&V and DBL. I am not sure whether RSC or Diesel Returner is better.

This is with Mi Cha Seol (RSC and Spectacular Volleys)

[jayb1988]

Thinking about a return build. Obviously the char must have a high Reflex value and fairly high Speed so it would be a mix of S&V and DBL. I am not sure whether RSC or Diesel Returner is better.

This is with Mi Cha Seol (RSC and Spectacular Volleys)

I honestly think stats become irrelevant for returning. My player's weaknesses are speed and reflexes, which to be honest I think are pointless for the game as a whole, as my player is capable of chasing down the majority of shots and can return with ease. I've never really understood what the reflex stat does as it doesnt appear to negatively affect any part of my play, despite it being so low. The only stats that matter to me are the groundstrokes, serve and power, if you have those and the right timing and anticipation, returning and your overall game will be fine.

[DennieFR1908]

I know the basic principle's of all returns and it isn't very hard..

Return with 0 or square are easy, just execute them the same as you would execute them in rally. Only difference is that your opponent may serve big serves so you have to respond quick in order to perfectly execute them.

You also have X return, which is alot harder, you don't only have to time perfectly but also have to steer in your analog at the exact good moment, as a counter punch, which is very realistic. Easiest to execute on hard serves, but also at slower serves altough timing is not what your used to so harder.

Btw it's strange you can't execute good return with 81 reflex.. I play with djokovic sometimes he has 77 reflex but it's vry easy to return with him it problably has something to do with your low strokes and power.

[Corbon]

I've never really understood what the reflex stat does

For ground game it isn't very important but when you're at the net the differences will become very obvious. It lets your player react faster to (passing) shots. I do agree that for baseliners, Reflex is by far the weakest stat in the game.

Btw it's strange you can't execute good return with 81 reflex..

I haven't even tried that build yet.. Power isn't a factor when it comes to returning, otherwise a 98-100 Power player would be a beast. But he has the same problem returning slow serves whenever I play one on the tour. However it's much easier to hit strong returns on stronger serves which would either fall under stupid programming or game balancing. And having high wings might have an effect but power players usually have both of them in orange. Edit: Mi Cha Seol requires 8 points in S&V and DBL.